If the DCI organization went away???

[cixelsyd]

29 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said:

I was thinking of the situation prior to DCI forming in 1972. The number of corps had already gone down by then and the decline of the cities started in the 50s/60s. 

To be fair, the number of competing corps appears to have gone down due to the Vietnam draft in the mid-1960s.  It was rising rapidly every year in the late 1950s through 1964.  Numbers were also on the rise in the years leading up to 1972.

Quote

Lot of smaller corps gone before DCI was even thought up. IOW doubt if that many AL, VFW, churches, etc were still providing support by 1972.

To be fair, there were still many corps receiving support and/or primary operational sponsorship from civic orgs and churches.  The withdrawal of such support was most acute among ambitious corps programs, which points to the true nature of the issue - more corps than ever before wanted to travel annually to compete nationally.

Quote

If they were it might have been a token amount so the corps could use the organizations name.

To be fair, secondary post affiliations like that were usually for the sake of contest eligibility, not financial considerations.

[GUARDLING]

2 hours ago, IllianaLancerContra said:

In 1970-72 there were leaders in the activity such as George Bonfiglio, Don Warren, & esp Jim Jones (to name a few) who were willing to lay it all on the line; say 'The current situation just isn't working for us'; & then actually do something about it.  I do not see leaders like that in the activity today.

You're right, a different world has alot to do with it, different responsibilities, different rules ( as we see ) different members, even different reasons for why a member joins the activity. Knowing the people you mentioned and a few other icons personally I would like to think those people would have evolved and did what was necessary to survive, just as they did BITD. Actually,  I'm very sure they would have. They were a unique bunch for sure, powerful leaders

[IllianaLancerContra]

3 minutes ago, GUARDLING said:

You're right, a different world has alot to do with it, different responsibilities, different rules ( as we see ) different members, even different reasons for why a member joins the activity. Knowing the people you mentioned and a few other icons personally I would like to think those people would have evolved and did what was necessary to survive, just as they did BITD. Actually,  I'm very sure they would have. They were a unique bunch for sure, powerful leaders

I wonder how the SoA 2021 situation(s) would have been handled had Jones or Warren been in charge of the Corps.  I know former members of Cavaliers who shuddered if Don Warren saw them causing trouble & said 'Misbehaving member, come over here, we need to have a little talk...' (they still tell these stories 40 years later).

[GUARDLING]

Just now, IllianaLancerContra said:

I wonder how the SoA 2021 situation(s) would have been handled had Jones or Warren been in charge of the Corps.  I know former members of Cavaliers who shuddered if Don Warren saw them causing trouble & said 'Misbehaving member, come over here, we need to have a little talk...' (they still tell these stories 40 years later).

I'm sure very strong and with an iron fist, 1st good directors, even today SHOULD KNOW everything that is going on, Thats their job. With that said, let's not kid ourselves , there was alot of questionable things even BITD, We can't judge yesterday by today's standards for sure BUT I believe those leaders were strong, demanding, took no bull for sure.

[JimF-LowBari]

28 minutes ago, cixelsyd said:

To be fair, the number of competing corps appears to have gone down due to the Vietnam draft in the mid-1960s.  It was rising rapidly every year in the late 1950s through 1964.  Numbers were also on the rise in the years leading up to 1972.

To be fair, there were still many corps receiving support and/or primary operational sponsorship from civic orgs and churches.  The withdrawal of such support was most acute among ambitious corps programs, which points to the true nature of the issue - more corps than ever before wanted to travel annually to compete nationally.

To be fair, secondary post affiliations like that were usually for the sake of contest eligibility, not financial considerations.

Vietnam war was one of the big reasons why some Junior corps took a big hit. (Source: posts from members at that time). However the Seniors took a hit in number of corps at the same time. For purposes of my DC history research would like to see the yearly numbers you refer to.

Edited February 5, 2022 by JimF-LowBari

[IllianaLancerContra]

1 minute ago, GUARDLING said:

I'm sure very strong and with an iron fist, 1st good directors, even today SHOULD KNOW everything that is going on, Thats their job. With that said, let's not kid ourselves , there was alot of questionable things even BITD, We can't judge yesterday by today's standards for sure BUT I believe those leaders were strong, demanding, took no bull for sure.

Absolutely questionable things BITD.  But my point is that a strong leader takes care of a problem immediately & nips it in the bud, rather than letting it fester & come out 7-months later on Reddit, Facebook, & DCP. 

And perhaps this is happening at some Corps, & that is why we don't hear about troubles in their organizations.   

But it seems that the collective consciousness of DCP suggests that there is more abuse going on out there that is being swept under the rug so to speak.  Not every abused member is willing to go public & has parents willing to retain a law firm (as happened w/ SoA). 

Heck, there are standing allegations on Reddit concerning Raiders, Battalion, & the new SCV Director.  And neither HQ DCI, nor the Corps involved, have said anything. 

And, unfortunately, that speaks volumes.  This is why some on this thread are suggesting the replacement or reorganization of DCI with an organization that will actively discipline the individual Corps if the Corps won't do it themselves.

No one here wants Drum Corps to go away.  But, there are only a limited number of times member abuse scandals can happen for the activity to survive.  And some of that number have been used up.

[Fred Windish]

When discussing how DCI was formed, how DCI took on a growing national presence so rapidly, one name rises to the top. That name is Donald Whiteley.

The late Don Whiteley came to DCI with a wealth of marketing and promotional talent at the highest levels of television and news production. He brought an impressive list of accomplished media types throughout the nation into play while expanding the fledgling DCI organization. Top media professionals in several major markets. Don had a unique ability to pick-up the phone and make things happen. He worked many, many hours per day.

So many key things happened behind the scenes to put together the national tour. Few can understand this and the number who remember specifics decreases as we lose those early participants.

It was my privilege to work closely with Don on our Allentown efforts during those early DCI years. We communicated and traveled together often. Don was a great mentor and friend. My wife and I still think fondly of Don and miss him greatly.

 

 

 

[Weaklefthand4ever]

20 minutes ago, IllianaLancerContra said:

Absolutely questionable things BITD.  But my point is that a strong leader takes care of a problem immediately & nips it in the bud, rather than letting it fester & come out 7-months later on Reddit, Facebook, & DCP. 

And perhaps this is happening at some Corps, & that is why we don't hear about troubles in their organizations.   

But it seems that the collective consciousness of DCP suggests that there is more abuse going on out there that is being swept under the rug so to speak.  Not every abused member is willing to go public & has parents willing to retain a law firm (as happened w/ SoA). 

Heck, there are standing allegations on Reddit concerning Raiders, Battalion, & the new SCV Director.  And neither HQ DCI, nor the Corps involved, have said anything. 

And, unfortunately, that speaks volumes.  This is why some on this thread are suggesting the replacement or reorganization of DCI with an organization that will actively discipline the individual Corps if the Corps won't do it themselves.

No one here wants Drum Corps to go away.  But, there are only a limited number of times member abuse scandals can happen for the activity to survive.  And some of that number have been used up.

I think there are organizations which are VERY well run. And I think we all know that there are organizations which are not. Waiting for the other shoe to drop is never an enviable position to be in. 

I truly believe in my heart that two things have come into being in the last 20 years which both helped and harmed but they both stem from the same tree: Social Media. 

On one hand, they allow a survivor to share their stories and reach out to a mass audience quickly. It's easy for an abuser or institution to hide when all there is is word of mouth. Though scuttlebutt travels fast from person to person, it travels much faster when millions of eyes potentially are on it. But this same amount of potential attention also allows those who would attempt to "dissuade" survivors to come forward by their online abusive practices (see SoA's Facebook shenanigan's) to have free roam of the field as well. 

[GUARDLING]

45 minutes ago, IllianaLancerContra said:

Absolutely questionable things BITD.  But my point is that a strong leader takes care of a problem immediately & nips it in the bud, rather than letting it fester & come out 7-months later on Reddit, Facebook, & DCP. 

And perhaps this is happening at some Corps, & that is why we don't hear about troubles in their organizations.   

But it seems that the collective consciousness of DCP suggests that there is more abuse going on out there that is being swept under the rug so to speak.  Not every abused member is willing to go public & has parents willing to retain a law firm (as happened w/ SoA). 

Heck, there are standing allegations on Reddit concerning Raiders, Battalion, & the new SCV Director.  And neither HQ DCI, nor the Corps involved, have said anything. 

And, unfortunately, that speaks volumes.  This is why some on this thread are suggesting the replacement or reorganization of DCI with an organization that will actively discipline the individual Corps if the Corps won't do it themselves.

No one here wants Drum Corps to go away.  But, there are only a limited number of times member abuse scandals can happen for the activity to survive.  And some of that number have been used up.

Im sure there is more than we hear or see BUT , I also think the court of public opinion is quite something different. AS a director of many programs in the past winter fall and summer I can tell you my reasoning on how these things get out of control BUT ( as in the past )won't say much beacuse in many cases people want their cake and eat it too and want freedom to do whatever without responsibility because so many think "they have the right" There has to be strong leaders who rule with an iron fist with no exception, especially in many of these cases. 

I will say 1 thing, I do believe people do have the right to do what they want but as a director I also have the choice to take someone in or keep them or not, staff or member. , can ya tell I was raised under some of those icons you mentioned..lol......Sorry it works.....lol.

Edited February 5, 2022 by GUARDLING

[Jeff Ream]

13 hours ago, Weaklefthand4ever said:

I see your point Jeff. But it is also safe to say that many of the corps which folded were also financially irresponsible all on their lonesome (separated from DCI in a financial sense?) I mean, if I remember correctly Southwind lasted a whopping 2 seasons before going inactive for 5 or 6 seasons due (in part,) to finances.  

corps started folding before DCI when the AL/VFW/CYO/Pal/Church sponsorships started pulling away. Sadly, when you have fewer corps, more corps folding looks even larger due to percentages. But by the time DCI was created, many former national champions were already gone. Sure, DCi didn't help things, but those that continue to point the finger entirely at DCI are not realizing the other 4 ignore way too many other reasons.