Weaklefthand4ever Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 10 hours ago, rjohn76 said: It's going to be a monumental challenge to actually establish an entity that is truly independent and effective. You don't have to look any further than SafeSport to see that it's harder than most people would have imagined. That organization continues to face adversity on many levels that threaten its credibility, effectiveness and long term viability: https://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/33348656/us-center-safesport-olympic-movement-misconduct-watchdog-struggles-shed-paper-tiger-reputation There also has to be a long hard look at how any 3rd party organization can truly control/impact what happens within the walls of an individual corps. Pioneer is the perfect example. DCI required that the Blenski family step aside from the board, but they didn't have the authority to actually require that such a transition happen. In fact, nobody in the world had the legal authority to make them do that based on my understanding of corporation laws in most states. There would likely have to be changes to the bylaws of each organization to allow a 3rd party entity to have any legal bearing on what happens within each individual organization. Excellent point. It has to be "reverse engineered" from an approach of worst case scenario backwards. Here is the result of condition-x and how do we make that result achievable and legal. Also, UNTIL that first lawsuit against DCI or a specific corps happens and sets our world on fire, how do we get corps to recognize that: 1. Even if YOUR corps can manage to keep their house clean (which isn't sustainable long term,) that doesn't mean that ALL corps can do the same. Pretty soon you're going to be winning every DCI title because there will only be one corps performing...grats on that. -and- 2. You (the corps) are working WAY too hard in a field that you are (most likely) not an expert in. The benefits of an outside organization helping to mitigate potential issues FAR outweighs the high-flying egos of those who wish to control every aspect of their organization within a broader context of the activity. Look...I'm a DRUMMER for ^%$^'s sake. I'm not exactly Wile E Coyote (super genius) and if I can see the upside, then people FAR smarter that me should be able to map it out and make it work. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weaklefthand4ever Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 29 minutes ago, scheherazadesghost said: (To be clear, if a young marching member is found misusing drugs or alcohol on tour, THEY NEED MORE SUPPORT, not less.) It's a valid point though. In the corporate world, that can happen. The company that I work for has a policy that if you are suspected of misusing alcohol or drugs, there is the potential that you will be interviewed by HR. If that occurs, you will have the opportunity to submit to a screening (if you are denying the accusation,) or admitting that you could have a potential issue in which case we will provide treatment / counseling and protect your employment with LOA. Granted this is a corporate approach and not exactly the family feel, but it works for us. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scheherazadesghost Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 (edited) . Edited September 1, 2022 by scheherazadesghost 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scheherazadesghost Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 (edited) . Edited September 1, 2022 by scheherazadesghost 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 7 hours ago, JimF-LowBari said: Correct DCI did not have the legal authority to tell Pioneer to make internal changes. But DCI did have the authority to not allow Pioneer to participate in DCI events. I am not saying a 3rd party would be able to make changes within a corps. What I am saying is a 3rd party should be able to set (or at least suggest) the proper action, including not participating in DCI. Which is no different from what DCI did in Pioneers case. The difference is someone other than DCI determines what should be done. I keep picturing DCI BoD saying “something needs to be done about corps A… but if we penalize them it will hurt our organization as a whole…. Uhhhhhhh”. Cliche is fox guarding the chicken coop It was easy for DCI to discipline Pioneer because Pioneer didn’t fit into the current DCI brand. Look how DCI didn’t wavered all over the place w/SoA 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, IllianaLancerContra said: It was easy for DCI to discipline Pioneer because Pioneer didn’t fit into the current DCI brand. Look how DCI didn’t wavered all over the place w/SoA I look at Pioneer issue as DCI thinking they weren’t going to lose anything if Pioneer wasn’t competing. Well other than losing a big PITA with RB. And…. Being able to claim “see we’re doing something”. Spirit…. not sure if I have the pieces. Spirit was going to look into the allegations and field for 2022. Then corps management announced they needed to take the season off to regroup. Didn’t see any reason given and nothing on DCIs input (if any) on it. Edited April 17, 2022 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 4 hours ago, JimF-LowBari said: I never said another about publishing the list. A corps sends who they removed and why. A corps wants to hire someone so they send in the name to whoever handles the database to see if the name is there. Like the state police background check I went through when I was to work with youth in my church. People are on the police list because they have been convicted & put on the list. The issue facing Drum Corps is how to handle individuals who have exhibited bad behavior but haven’t been convicted in a court of law. What happens if someone is ‘on the list’ but believes that the should not be on the list? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 4 minutes ago, IllianaLancerContra said: People are on the police list because they have been convicted & put on the list. The issue facing Drum Corps is how to handle individuals who have exhibited bad behavior but haven’t been convicted in a court of law. What happens if someone is ‘on the list’ but believes that the should not be on the list? Good point. Appeal process when a corps reports them? Or have area on report of what they are accused of and the accused persons rebuttal? Have dealt with bullies in the past. Some of “reasons” given for their actions were mind boggling. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weaklefthand4ever Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, IllianaLancerContra said: People are on the police list because they have been convicted & put on the list. The issue facing Drum Corps is how to handle individuals who have exhibited bad behavior but haven’t been convicted in a court of law. What happens if someone is ‘on the list’ but believes that the should not be on the list? Exactly and that's where one of the biggest issues would seem to be. I simply cannot wrap my brain around how that would work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scheherazadesghost Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 (edited) . Edited September 1, 2022 by scheherazadesghost Edit to add, clarify 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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