FTNK Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 (edited) another couple of examples - I went to college in Ohio and there were 3-4 guys who marched Bluecoats [who were not even a top 6 corps at the time, and far from the perennial contender they are today]. All from a top BOA competition school, with a competitive drumline, all music education majors, and they were all in college MB, percussion ensemble, wind ensemble, orchestra, WGI drumline (Rhythm X) together, taking weekly lessons at a college level. You can't get nearly the results of that amount of "talent" [I loathe the discourse of "talent" as an innate quality; I prefer "skill" and "experience"] even with the best staff. Look at SCV's drumline, a lot of those guys are Rennick's students at University of North Texas, they're studying individually with him and playing together constantly I think the reality is that a lot of kids who march lower placed corps don't really WANT to march in a top corps. In my non-finalist corps, a lot of people just wanted to march a year or two to have the experience. You have to be a bit - or a lot - of a fanatic to want to go for a corps at the top. And from a "structural/systemic" standpoint, if you have the money to march multiple years, you probably have had enough money to have taken private lessons for years and years... Edited July 9, 2022 by FTNK 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTNK Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 9 hours ago, Sideways said: Simple rule change to help parity at the world class level…if you want to change corps you sit a year. pass me what you're smoking 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideways Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 2 hours ago, Chief Guns said: So let's say my kid marches with Corps A. Some bad things happen there. He comes home from tour and says "Dad I don't want to go back there because of bad culture/staff etc." Kid now wants to go to Corps B which is a better environment/culture all around. Does my kid have to sit out a year for "Parity" so Corps C and Corps D can have a chance to win? Also what about if you move to a lower placing corps? I have no numbers or stats in how often that happens, but it does happen. Case in point, a several years back my buddy's daughter marched with a corps that finished 5th at finals. She moved to a corps the following year (her age out) that went on to finish 17th at finals. Would she have been eliminated from marching her age out year even though she went to a corps that wasn't as competitive in the standings? Question wasn’t about fairness…it was about parity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 8 hours ago, MikeN said: I don't even know if you need to fix parity on the front (corps) end. The back/judging end is where you could make lasting reform, and it starts with the silly expectations DCI and it's member groups have about adjudication. <deep breath> Caption bleed is ridiculous and just shrugged at, and nobody can give you practical examples of what GE is, other than "I know it when I see it." The sheets themselves are written so nebulously that it lends itself to any idea of interpretation, and the idea drilled in to everyone's heads that scores obediently improve a little one show to the next, in nice little slotted positions, over the course of a season is patently ludicrous. I can give you a dozen different activities that let judges rank and rate independently, and you rarely get similar results. Hell, remember when *DCI itself* briefly had double panels a few years ago for part of a season? Everyone got so mad that they didn't agree - "how could they see it so differently?" You want parity? Call. It. Like. You. See. It. (And can actually define it.) Off my soapbox. Mike you have some captions or judges where it happens, and some you don't. i mean Chumley on finals week almost always guarantees BD a 20 on his sheet. and of course drum guys always make things fun. But in a way we have gotten a little closer, as you see some corps with certain strengths and weaknesses that hurt. for a while SCV was always at the top for percussion, but other sheets had them in 4-7 range. Crowns brass became their thing, but the percussion always seem to be the one holding them back. Bostons guard instant contender, but other areas held them back. even in 19, Bloo so good in many places, but percussion was little below. When you get to the top, they're literally separating flyshit from pepper. Do I always like the calls made? No, but in many cases I get it ( except 15 and 19). But if you're running 1/2 in almost every sheet, but 4/5 in one, it can be a difference maker. I mean look at the ultimate....Southwind 2000. top 12 on every single sheet....but 13th overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 7 hours ago, Liahona said: I'll ask these questions. What if the entire BD staff left Devils and went to say Music City (just used for example sake as MC recently moved to WC in 2018)? Where would that elevate them right away? Would folks that normally march BD now go to Music City and when would this actually occur (right away or in a season or two)? How far could the current talent at MC be elevated in the rankings (assuming no advance announcement was made)? Would the members reach some sort of competitive ceiling? Would the MC organization have the financial stability or capability to handle such a massive change, even if they staff themselves worked for free? My point is there is more to this equation then just what happens on the field. What happens off-the field is just as important as on-field competitiveness... Note: I am not disparaging MC in any way. Just using them as a hypothetical to pose some of these questions. well...look at Boston. everyone hypes the money and the new staff in 17.....and have not medaled yet. So $$$ isn't everything. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slingerland Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 12 hours ago, IllianaLancerContra said: I think there are 2 parts to parity - (1) parity in talent and (2) parity in design. If we want parity, both need to be addressed. I used to wonder what it would look like if the BD design team had (insert favorite lower-placing Corps) talent, and if the lower placing Corps design team was given BD's talented membership. Troopers and SCV have the same designers/arrangers (the Rennicks) in the percussion caption. Vastly different results. It's the players and the techs. Not the designers, unless we want to consider that possibly the designers are giving some clients their A games and everyone else their less than A games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTNK Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 25 minutes ago, Slingerland said: unless we want to consider that possibly the designers are giving some clients their A games and everyone else their less than A games. I think there is some of that, but the rest is - you have to write to the corps. Sorry to talk about myself 16 years ago but: I had Jay Bocook brass arrangements and Jeff Sacktig drill for 3 years - two at Cap Reg (14th, 15th) and one at Cadets (5th). The Cadets drill was faster, more physically demanding, more spectacular etc. The music was a lot harder and more interesting - rhythmic and tempo changes, much more exposure, some virtuoso passages etc. Was the stuff for the lower placing corps “not the designer’s A game”? No, they would never have been able to pull off the Cadets design - ####, we couldn’t quite do it either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liahona Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jeff Ream said: well...look at Boston. everyone hypes the money and the new staff in 17.....and have not medaled yet. So $$$ isn't everything. I agree with that for sure...but not really implying that it was ALL about money...there are so many different pieces to the puzzle in the equation...not trying to dumb things down either. Edited July 9, 2022 by Liahona Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Guns Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 On 7/8/2022 at 8:42 PM, Sideways said: Question wasn’t about fairness…it was about parity. So you want DCI to mandate to the corps to force these kids into multiple year contracts? My kid signed a contract for his current corps for 2022. When the season ends next month, he is free to go wherever he wants as he will had fulfilled his contract to the corps. How long would these contracts be? Two years? Three years? Do you have to sit out a year if you march an Open Class corps and you want to make the jump to World Class the following year? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Anova Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 (edited) On 7/9/2022 at 1:33 AM, Liahona said: I agree with that for sure...but not really implying that it was ALL about money...there are so many different pieces to the puzzle in the equation...not trying to dumb things down either. It’s resources . No corps has medaled the last 3 decades without also being in the top tier with resources before hand . If you are not fund raising each and every year at an elite level to become an attractive option for top tier staff and students , then your corps has little chance of medaling . Money doesn’t grow on trees or fall from the sky . It’s hard work to increase a corps resources available . It takes creativity , intelligence , know how , and non stop diligence . Fall behind in resources available and it’s likely that corps ultimately finds itself in potential placement slide in the field competition arena . When that occurs , it’s not unsurprising that such a corps or corps finds its loses marchers and future potential applicants to corps with better resources that offer more attractive opportunities for them . BD has the largest resources available to them . such resources are an advantage to retaining top staff and being an attractive corps for marchers and future marchers . If you want to top the Blue Devils on the competition field in the future , you had better be able to at least be close to their fund raising ability levels off the field , as the lack of money isn’t going to magically make your corps competitive on the field with them without such constant hard work in the fund raising realm off the field . That’s just the cold hard reality . Edited July 10, 2022 by Boss Anova 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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