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Tuesday, July 19th “DCI Broken Arrow” …. Tiger Stadium Broken Arrow High School … Broken Arrow, OKLAHOMA


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That's some prime Oklahoma weather.

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11 hours ago, Poppycock said:

I’ve always looked at this negative differently! If given the opportunity, would one corps be able to perform another corps production equal to or better than the other.

IMO BD could easily perform the Crownies show. However I don’t believe that the Crownies could perform BD’s production at the same level of achievement BD does.

Never underestimate the environmental demands required in BD’s production. Just because they teach performance in a manner that make things look easy or effortlessly doesn’t mean it is. 

Oh, don’t get me wrong, I think people can not enjoy their shows. Denying the talent though? Crazy.

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On 7/19/2022 at 9:34 PM, spacewill said:

Trash spread.  1st, sure give it to BD.  1.5 pts, thats just a trash score.   This is why everyone hates on them.

Not everyone, I love BD's show and they had a bad night guard wise.  They still have a lot of cleaning up to do.  The design of their show and the way they move is just superior to every other corps.  I love Moon River and their horn line was on fire.  I doubt they will lose a show this year.  They have no weaknesses!  I also like Crowns show, but I do not think their design and transitions are as good as BD.  I like you have a bias, because I grew up in Walnut Creek which is right next to Concord.  I realize people get sick of BD winning, but that does not change the fact that they put out #### good shows with some of the best performers available in the USA and beyond.  It is the same hate another team I have rooted for, the Warriors (NBA) get, because of their success.  The 1.7 spread between BD and Crown is not impossible to make up, but at this moment BD is in the drivers seat!

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On 7/20/2022 at 5:49 AM, LabMaster said:

Never did I say judge from home.  Can’t you read?  I said those who HAVE judged or taught CAN assess what they see on screen.  If you think they can’t then why not criticize everyone judging brass, percussion, guard performance quality & show design when they never see it live.  But they judge what they see and hear.  People with more experience as legit judges and instructors DO have a better understanding of what they see versus someone criticizing corps who have never done either.

Yes, I can read. I never said you said judging from home. It doesn’t need to be said, it’s implied. What, do you think everyone commenting here about the judging was in the stadium and down on the field? No, they were judging from home - from a performance streamed over the internet by a service who controls what we hear and how we hear it, what we see and how we see it, and has technical issues which effect the visuals we see and the sound we hear.

I have been involved with this activity since 1984. I have won DCI finals. I also have extensive experience with this activity and knowing what wins and what doesn’t win. That still does not make me qualified to judge a performance. It also doesn’t make 99+% of people on here qualified to judge one caption let alone all captions simultaneously. Participation in this activity does not make one qualified to judge it. I have never once made one comment about judging other than I believe the judges get it right. 

I also believe these days the biggest factor in what determines who wins and who doesn’t is design. All the top corps have the talent to win. What separates them is design. Evaluating design and understanding what separates a design worthy of winning (BD and BAC) from a design that isn’t worthy of winning (eveyrone else - right now) is not judging a performance, and is not difficult if one has paid attention, over the years, and learnt what differentiates the designs that win vs those that don’t.

Edited by henry7184
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4 hours ago, henry7184 said:

Yes, I can read. I never said you said judging from home. It doesn’t need to be said, it’s implied. What, do you think everyone commenting here about the judging was in the stadium and down on the field? No, they were judging from home - from a performance streamed over the internet by a service who controls what we hear and how we hear it, what we see and how we see it, and has technical issues which effect the visuals we see and the sound we hear.

I have been involved with this activity since 1984. I have won DCI finals. I also have extensive experience with this activity and knowing what wins and what doesn’t win. That still does not make me qualified to judge a performance. It also doesn’t make 99+% of people on here qualified to judge one caption let alone all captions simultaneously. Participation in this activity does not make one qualified to judge it. I have never once made one comment about judging other than I believe the judges get it right. 

I also believe these days the biggest factor in what determines who wins and who doesn’t is design. All the top corps have the talent to win. What separates them is design. Evaluating design and understanding what separates a design worthy of winning (BD and BAC) from a design that isn’t worthy of winning (eveyrone else - right now) is not judging a performance, and is not difficult if one has paid attention, over the years, and learnt what differentiates the designs that win vs those that don’t.

Hemry7184,

I have been a fan of the activity since 1977, but as a woodwind player never marched in a corps and so am even less qualified to judge - just know what I enjoy.  Although I think with enough years of watching you can develop an eye and ear for what clean, excellent performance looks and sounds like.

Based on your comments, what do you feel are the key elements of winning design?  Why are only the few able to consistently achieve it?  Is it that there are only a limited number of truly innovative design staff folks out there and the top five have them?  Please share.  Thanks.

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1 hour ago, dciphan79 said:

Hemry7184,

I have been a fan of the activity since 1977, but as a woodwind player never marched in a corps and so am even less qualified to judge - just know what I enjoy.  Although I think with enough years of watching you can develop an eye and ear for what clean, excellent performance looks and sounds like.

Based on your comments, what do you feel are the key elements of winning design?  Why are only the few able to consistently achieve it?  Is it that there are only a limited number of truly innovative design staff folks out there and the top five have them?  Please share.  Thanks.

I don't think you are any less qualified to judge than anyone else on here. I agree that we can develop an eye for what looks clean and what a performance sounds like - live. It is very different experience, as I'm sure you know, seeing something live vs on a video that relies on technology to be received crisp and clear - musically and visually.

I wrote a long answer but deleted it, because I was just put in a time out and I don't want to come across as attacking any corps. I'll DM you. I can't answer it without calling out different corps and I just don't want to upset people anymore.

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6 hours ago, henry7184 said:

Yes, I can read. I never said you said judging from home. It doesn’t need to be said, it’s implied. What, do you think everyone commenting here about the judging was in the stadium and down on the field? No, they were judging from home - from a performance streamed over the internet by a service who controls what we hear and how we hear it, what we see and how we see it, and has technical issues which effect the visuals we see and the sound we hear.

I have been involved with this activity since 1984. I have won DCI finals. I also have extensive experience with this activity and knowing what wins and what doesn’t win. That still does not make me qualified to judge a performance. It also doesn’t make 99+% of people on here qualified to judge one caption let alone all captions simultaneously. Participation in this activity does not make one qualified to judge it. I have never once made one comment about judging other than I believe the judges get it right. 

I also believe these days the biggest factor in what determines who wins and who doesn’t is design. All the top corps have the talent to win. What separates them is design. Evaluating design and understanding what separates a design worthy of winning (BD and BAC) from a design that isn’t worthy of winning (eveyrone else - right now) is not judging a performance, and is not difficult if one has paid attention, over the years, and learnt what differentiates the designs that win vs those that don’t.

Read the words.  Don’t interpret.  Yay for you, you matched and win.  So what.  You can assess from your own living room.  You may be right you may be wrong.  But you’ll be influenced one way or another by the quality of the video.  Yet you can still see and hear sufficiently to know who is good or not.  No need to keep arguing.

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On 7/27/2022 at 12:50 PM, henry7184 said:

I don't think you are any less qualified to judge than anyone else on here. I agree that we can develop an eye for what looks clean and what a performance sounds like - live. It is very different experience, as I'm sure you know, seeing something live vs on a video that relies on technology to be received crisp and clear - musically and visually.

I wrote a long answer but deleted it, because I was just put in a time out and I don't want to come across as attacking any corps. I'll DM you. I can't answer it without calling out different corps and I just don't want to upset people anymore.

Henry7184,

thanks for taking the time to give such a thorough reply by DM. I will watch and listen with these thoughts in mind. Thanks!

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