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General Effect.... Disagreement?


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1 hour ago, keystone3ply said:

It's all subjective & I guess it really doesn't matter.  Just enjoy the process... 

sadly at the end of the day that is what we are left with.

Problem I have is everyone involved with these drum corps deserves the best. The judges are affecting essentially 200ish people in an organization not to mention all the alumni , parents, fans , member sponsors and supporters of a particular corps.  
A judges personal likes or dislikes or bias should never get in the way of fairly scoring a performance. 

For a subjective caption ,  GE carries way too much weight 
 

Edited by Triple Forte
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2 minutes ago, Triple Forte said:

sadly at the end of the day that is what we are left with.

Problem I have is everyone involved with these drum corps deserves the best. The judges are affecting essentially 200ish people in an organization not to mention all the alumni , parents, fans , member sponsors and supporters of a particular corps.  
A judges personal likes or dislikes or bias should never get in the way of fairly scoring a performance. 

For a subjective caption ,  GE carries way too much weight 
 

But they're all subjective captions.

Even in the days of ticks, you'd ask, who's counting the ticks? Or, what counts as a tick? 

 

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2 minutes ago, mfrontz said:

But they're all subjective captions.

Even in the days of ticks, you'd ask, who's counting the ticks? Or, what counts as a tick? 

 

and reasoning for a tic...    were varied and many.  

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You know.  Last week when I was stuck at Union Station without an umbrella by a storm that was setting off news making lightning I parked it at a restaurant and they had some ESPN documentary on about how the college football playoff system came to be.  Like most 30 for 30's for me, it was both an interesting analysis and walk down memory lane. 

There was one thing that stuck out for me though.  When they went to the average of polls with the computer polls using algorithms and such in an attempt to remove as much subjectivity as they could for determining the top two to play for the championship, ultimately people revolted on it.  No amount of explanation of how the statistics and numbers were crunched out made sense to anyone. Particularly when up against people's tendency to go with their intuition. 

This talk about scoring and adjudication feels similar (as it does for things like figure skating as well).  As much as we want to remove the human element and find something objective, we'd probably revolt against that with a "no way, that's insane" because there's a 'narrative arc' our minds want to complete on some level that just doesn't line up with objectivity sometimes.  Heck we even see it in competitions where there's more 'objectivity' to results with "refs were paid off" or "They were stealing signals for sure" and "The winner HAD to have been doping, there was just no way."  Etc.  

So on some level, the enjoyment of competition in drum corps is DRIVEN by the subjectivity of the scoring at times.  Otherwise, it's just maxing out numbers and 'filling bars' as gamers say.  (Yes I know there's a whole genre of 'fill the bar' games and people who love them.)

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18 minutes ago, mfrontz said:

But they're all subjective captions.

Even in the days of ticks, you'd ask, who's counting the ticks? Or, what counts as a tick? 

 

Yeah, but that strikes me as some kind of false equivalence fallacy or some other fallacy thinking.

It comes down to the integrity of the judges and education on what to reward and not reward.

It seems to me that under the tic system, they're judging execution versus judging design now.

That changes the equation.

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I think what bothers me the most about all of this is that these organizations KNOW all of this when they join.  The rules are the rules, and if you don’t like them, don’t play. Of course you want to monitor judges to gauge, if you can, their impartiality, but unless there is evidence of someone actively working to undermine the system, you play the hand you are dealt, or fold. 

Edited by DWW11
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I know we see the recaps to tell us what the scoring was.  What I would love to know is why Corps A getting a 9.9 in in Content but Corp B is getting a 9.8 instead of 9.85 (or even a 9.9 for a tie).  Even though I did the Symposium thing last year, I don't get that.    

 

For Achievement, I generally get it.  If its challenging and done well, probably the same as Content score.  Weak content done well, Achievement is higher than Content and if not clean a little a little lower.

Edited by ShortyRock
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