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General Effect.... Disagreement?


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2 hours ago, dureau said:

I’m my humble opinion it is slotting that Is applied just before finals every year that gives the effect and reality of judge bias. Corps should be given the scores they achieved without relationship  to each other. And the weighting of GE higher than everything and in addition the invisible or elimination of drill scoring by including it in GE diminishes the real proficiency of a corp. GE is way less important than music in performers growth as a musician or otherwise. 

this isn't just a music activity.   

and keep in mind, there's box that the evaluator interprets what they see and hear.  music boxes now have visual components and encourage "layered demand" so they expect a musician to dancey dancey while they playey playey... but it is not vice versa for visual only performers.   

but again. besides each box is a description of how the evaluator should interpret what they see/hear. or maybe its on the back of the sheet.  either way, its a guess.

and unfortunately, its all driven from a design desk before one note is even played in November.  Which is unfortunate, because it becomes about the design team, and not about the performer. 

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On 8/9/2022 at 12:26 PM, MikeN said:

Very true, but I'd posit that the technical proficiency of the battery is still easier to determine than the "emotional clarity" of the program.

Mike

not always. design matters. talking to staff matters. i believe the judges get background info on shows as well. and of course as the season goes on, repeated views helps a lot.

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On 8/9/2022 at 12:52 PM, jjeffeory said:

Yeah, but that strikes me as some kind of false equivalence fallacy or some other fallacy thinking.

It comes down to the integrity of the judges and education on what to reward and not reward.

It seems to me that under the tic system, they're judging execution versus judging design now.

That changes the equation.

design still factored in under the tick system. but the restrictions on design made it a little easier to go apple to apple

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2 hours ago, dureau said:

I’m my humble opinion it is slotting that Is applied just before finals every year that gives the effect and reality of judge bias. Corps should be given the scores they achieved without relationship  to each other. And the weighting of GE higher than everything and in addition the invisible or elimination of drill scoring by including it in GE diminishes the real proficiency of a corp. GE is way less important than music in performers growth as a musician or otherwise. 

yet look at the flip flops all over the place below BD these last 2 weeks. how much slotting is there?

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as for personal bias/likes....it can be tough. i'm not always a BD fan or a fan of their design style. yet when i judge GE for bands or even indoor percussion, i keep the sheet right there. the criteria. i reference it often, so that way "like" doesn't matter, the criteria on the sheet matters.

 

is it ok to like or not like a show? Sure! Shows i wouldn't pay to see won my sheets in the past. Why? They met the criteria. 

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2 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

as for personal bias/likes....it can be tough. i'm not always a BD fan or a fan of their design style. yet when i judge GE for bands or even indoor percussion, i keep the sheet right there. the criteria. i reference it often, so that way "like" doesn't matter, the criteria on the sheet matters.

 

is it ok to like or not like a show? Sure! Shows i wouldn't pay to see won my sheets in the past. Why? They met the criteria. 

AGREE!  I have also looked at some shows, music choice etc etc with an old fashioned eye roll and ended up being a fav of mine in the end. Those situations are the best for me.

Edited by GUARDLING
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14 minutes ago, GUARDLING said:

AGREE!  I have also looked at some shows, music choice etc etc with an old fashioned eye roll and ended up being a fav of mine in the end. Those situations are the best for me.

yeah i love seeing preconceived notions blown all to hell.

 

except Malaguena. LOL

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34 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

yet look at the flip flops all over the place below BD these last 2 weeks. how much slotting is there?

...more than at Grand Nationals.

BD is first , despite execution issues here and there.

Boston is 2nd.

Bluecoats and Crown are flip flopping

SCV is 5th

Cadets are 6th

Blue Stars are 7th

Cavaliers and Mandarins are flip flopping

Regiment is 10th, but has tied Cavaliers.

...then it's interesting with Crossmen, Colts, BK, and Troopers.

My feeling is that it should be "interesting" 1st through 4th, and then 6th through 10th should see more movement. Finally 11th through 14th should be shifting around.

I think the designs are dictating the slotting of 1st, 2nd, 5th, 6th, and 7th.

We'll see.

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55 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

not always. design matters. talking to staff matters. i believe the judges get background info on shows as well. and of course as the season goes on, repeated views helps a lot.

I always wondered if there's a judges meeting after each show today.

I have no idea.

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