Saturday, August 13th 5:30 PM ET “DCI World Championship Finals” Lucas Oil Stadium Indianapolis, Indiana

[Cappybara]

1 hour ago, MarimbaManiac said:

If that's how you choose to view it, I aspire to your level of delusion. 

Corps don't design shows for the purpose of artistic expression. They universally design with the purposed of being competitive. Blue Devils especially design with the primary goal of ticking enough boxes to win, at the expense of artistic expression. Everything that is designed from that point is done with the express purpose of utility, not art. It's no more art than a commercial jingle is art, or a company slogan/logo is art. It's design for the purpose of utility, and not art. 

You are free to enjoy whatever you want in the manner you choose, but let's not delude ourselves in thinking that what happens on those fields is anything other than what it is, a competitive exercise based primarily on excellence. 

So in the 80s, back when corps would have almost a note for note transcription of source music, that was art? Even though they were essentially replaying something already played before? Using original music and playing personalized interpretations of music isn’t artistic expression? 
 

I’m genuinely curious because to me, the shows in the 80s and the BD shows now are equally artistic. Gatekeeping what is art is pretentious as hell. But maybe I’m a simpleton 🙂 

[Cappybara]

43 minutes ago, DWW11 said:

Look at it this way: when ABBD reuses a sequence (or a drill, sound, idea) it’s lovingly referred to as an Easter Egg. When BD does it, it is called a formula!  😎

Hypocrisy is great, isn’t it? Delicious 

[Cappybara]

32 minutes ago, MarimbaManiac said:

 

There is a difference between secondary or ancillary motives for expression being for utility, and primary motives being utility. I clearly made that distinction in my previous reply, which you seem to be trying to distort into an argument I didn't make to make it easier for you to attack. Most musical expression has some sort of utility (screen scoring being a clear example), however when the primary motive is something other than expression (competition, money, advertisement), it ceases being art, and becomes something else (be it commerce, or competition, or whatever). You stating that this has never been true, does not make it this way. 

 

...and yes, I am an artist thank you. Not for my comments here, but by virtue of being a professional composer with a PhD in music composition and theory. Motivation, venue, and medium matter. It's silly to pretend they don't, and nothing that happens on the field at DCI, or BOA, or WGI, or any other venue where the primary driver is competition, is art. Sorry bout it. 

I really do love the appeal to authority fallacy 

[George Dixon]

38 minutes ago, DWW11 said:

Look at it this way: when ABBD reuses a sequence (or a drill, sound, idea) it’s lovingly referred to as an Easter Egg. When BD does it, it is called a formula!  😎

For a fan base whose favorite corps just won ANOTHER championship - they sure are a whiney bunch 🤣

Grow some thicker skin (would be my advice) - calling a formulaic show "a formulaic show" is nothing but calling a spade a spade. The complaining about the Blue Devils is literally NOTHING compared to the whining about the Cadets in the 80s, or Star in the early 90s.

 

[DFA1970]

9 minutes ago, Cappybara said:

In a lot of ways, other than the Cadets and maybe phantom, BD is one of the most “old school” corps out there

Cadets won all of their titles based on their style...same with SCV, Cavies, PR and Madison. And BD does not have to wear pajamas as unis to be cutting edge. That's not cutting edge.

[MarimbaManiac]

2 minutes ago, Cappybara said:

So in the 80s, back when corps would have almost a note for note transcription of source music, that was art? Even though they were essentially replaying something already played before? Using original music and playing personalized interpretations of music isn’t artistic expression? 
 

I’m genuinely curious because to me, the shows in the 80s and the BD shows now are equally artistic. Gatekeeping what is art is pretentious as hell. But maybe I’m a simpleton 🙂 

Even note for note transcriptions of segments of pieces, are still being removed from their initial venue, initial instrumentation (usually), and truncated to be appropriate for the competitive venues, time limits, spatial limitations, and competitive needs. Those corps took existing artistic expression, and shoehorned it into a narrow competitive medium. It's dissecting previous artistic forms and creating competitive exercises with the leftover pieces. 

What the members are doing on the field is amazing, in terms of being able to execute utilitarian musical vignettes and movement with increasing levels of excellence, but it's not art. It's closer to a sport, than it is art. There is nothing wrong with that, but there is a difference. 

 

[George Dixon]

5 minutes ago, Cappybara said:

Hypocrisy is great, isn’t it? Delicious 

Just human nature - there's billions of us - jealousy is a large part of what makes a human.

[Cappybara]

3 minutes ago, George Dixon said:

For a fan base whose favorite corps just won ANOTHER championship - they sure are a whiney bunch 🤣

Grow some thicker skin (would be my advice) - calling a formulaic show "a formulaic show" is nothing but calling a spade a spade. The complaining about the Blue Devils is literally NOTHING compared to the whining about the Cadets in the 80s, or Star in the early 90s.

 

Oh, we’re just calling a spade a spade too, George 😉 

[George Dixon]

2 minutes ago, MarimbaManiac said:

Even note for note transcriptions of segments of pieces, are still being removed from their initial venue, initial instrumentation (usually), and truncated to be appropriate for the competitive venues, time limits, spatial limitations, and competitive needs. Those corps took existing artistic expression, and shoehorned it into a narrow competitive medium. It's dissecting previous artistic forms and creating competitive exercises with the leftover pieces. 

What the members are doing on the field is amazing, in terms of being able to execute utilitarian musical vignettes and movement with increasing levels of excellence, but it's not art. It's closer to a sport, than it is art. There is nothing wrong with that, but there is a difference. 

 

Bloviation at its finest.

Edited August 14, 2022 by George Dixon

[Cappybara]

1 minute ago, MarimbaManiac said:

Even note for note transcriptions of segments of pieces, are still being removed from their initial venue, initial instrumentation (usually), and truncated to be appropriate for the competitive venues, time limits, spatial limitations, and competitive needs. Those corps took existing artistic expression, and shoehorned it into a narrow competitive medium. It's dissecting previous artistic forms and creating competitive exercises with the leftover pieces. 

What the members are doing on the field is amazing, in terms of being able to execute utilitarian musical vignettes and movement with increasing levels of excellence, but it's not art. It's closer to a sport, than it is art. There is nothing wrong with that, but there is a difference. 

 

It’s not art from whose perspective? Yours? The members? The designers? The judges? The audience?