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Carolina Crown 2023


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No one likes things when they're actually brand new.  Instead they complain that they're not getting what they expect.

Crown's show was a completely fresh take on the activity.  

I enjoyed it. 

I said from day one it's more like a Vegas or Theme Park show than a faux intellectual "look how deep and sophisticated we are" approach.  It completely captured the attention of the audience as designed;  that's the textbook definition of GE.  If the judging community can't see that then shame on them.

Yes they struggled with getting clean.  I chalk that up to a new-to-Crown visual staff.  

I haven't loved Rick's past designs for outdoor regardless of his success indoor. 

But this show "worked".  It did not need narration.  It did not need useless and expensive props created by someone other than the performers.  Instead the fabric actually required the performers to create effect themselves.  IMHO this is a far better formula than "who can build the highest monkeybars and ramps and then stand on them while playing".  

Keep entertaining the audience, Crown.  That's a GOOD thing.  It's something I wish other DCI design teams cared a little more about.  

Edited by karuna
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After the last standing ovation at Finals, I turned to The Wife and said "I don't really care how they score it, that show was FUN!"

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7 hours ago, TigerBaritone19 said:

The show design could have been better, yes. But they get paid to do what they do at Crown and everyone on here is behind a screen telling them what to do, and not even a few days after they finished their first tour in 3 years. Relax. It got 4th place, hardly a failure. All season I was caught up in numbers because Crown was doing well and I wanted them to score a certain number each night. But once Finals rolled around, and I watched that performance, numbers and placement meant nothing. Winning meant nothing. The crowd participated and responded. One of two of the loudest reactions that night. The show was fun and the brass was fantastic. CrownGuard is back and the percussion is much better than 2012-2014 (some would say it was a train wreck this year because of numbers). Might I remind people that the Leon May and Townsend team only won one championship. As fantastic as that team is, they only won once (I would argue they should have won multiple times, but that is beside the point). That one championship was years in the making. We are on year 4 of this design team and they have stayed consistently around the top 3 each year, which many corps would kill for if they completely overhauled their design teams.

All of this to say, don't hit the "eject" button just yet for crying out loud. The design staff are in these positions for a reason. Did Crown try something risky this year? Absolutely. Did it work out perfectly for them? No, but watching multi-cam on Saturday showed me that what they set out to do was accomplished, which was to perform a show that got the crowd participating and that the show was fun to watch as well as perform. The look on those kids' faces tells me all I need to know. If you think drum corps is just about holding up the Founder's Trophy at the end of the year and that certain members of the design staff should be fired or just leave so that the corps can get that trophy again, then you are in the wrong in my eyes. Of course I would love for Crown to win again, but I just love watching Crown shows and listening to their godly brass.

I hope everyone stays healthy and well, and I look forward to what next year brings. But first, let's just appreciate the fact that competitive drum corps is back after 2 years. It truly is a blessing that we still have it.

I get paid to do what I do too, which is design. So now you're telling me that I can't speak my opinion from a designers standpoint? 

Yes, Crown has stayed around 3rd and 4th. That's also called stagnant. We should be seeing some better results after 6 years of working together, and I'm still saying 6 because this show was worked on through Covid as well, and what we got was not one cohesive thought throughout the entire show. The performers got us 4th. The design team would have had us lower if it weren't for the performers on the field, who paid to march with Crown. 

I'm sorry, but I'm just not buying into the whole "give them time to mesh and flesh" anymore. 6 years to see results, and all we've seen is a fall from 3rd to 4th and staying stagnant. Thank God Crown is still able to pull in the talent.

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19 minutes ago, ZTWright said:

I get paid to do what I do too, which is design. So now you're telling me that I can't speak my opinion from a designers standpoint? 

Yes, Crown has stayed around 3rd and 4th. That's also called stagnant. We should be seeing some better results after 6 years of working together, and I'm still saying 6 because this show was worked on through Covid as well, and what we got was not one cohesive thought throughout the entire show. The performers got us 4th. The design team would have had us lower if it weren't for the performers on the field, who paid to march with Crown. 

I'm sorry, but I'm just not buying into the whole "give them time to mesh and flesh" anymore. 6 years to see results, and all we've seen is a fall from 3rd to 4th and staying stagnant. Thank God Crown is still able to pull in the talent.

Yup. The talented members are that design team’s saving grace. It’s one thing to have members who simply wouldn’t be able to compete with the championship talent that corps like BD, Boston, Bloo, and SCV have. But Crown DOES have that championship level talent that easily rivals the best. But the design team is holding those paying members back and that’s unfortunate 

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1 hour ago, ZTWright said:

I get paid to do what I do too, which is design. So now you're telling me that I can't speak my opinion from a designers standpoint? 

Yes, Crown has stayed around 3rd and 4th. That's also called stagnant. We should be seeing some better results after 6 years of working together, and I'm still saying 6 because this show was worked on through Covid as well, and what we got was not one cohesive thought throughout the entire show. The performers got us 4th. The design team would have had us lower if it weren't for the performers on the field, who paid to march with Crown. 

I'm sorry, but I'm just not buying into the whole "give them time to mesh and flesh" anymore. 6 years to see results, and all we've seen is a fall from 3rd to 4th and staying stagnant. Thank God Crown is still able to pull in the talent.

Didn't Crown lose part of their design team to BAC around 6 years ago? It takes time to see the results or rebuild.

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1 hour ago, ZTWright said:

I get paid to do what I do too, which is design. So now you're telling me that I can't speak my opinion from a designers standpoint? 

Yes, Crown has stayed around 3rd and 4th. That's also called stagnant. We should be seeing some better results after 6 years of working together, and I'm still saying 6 because this show was worked on through Covid as well, and what we got was not one cohesive thought throughout the entire show. The performers got us 4th. The design team would have had us lower if it weren't for the performers on the field, who paid to march with Crown. 

I'm sorry, but I'm just not buying into the whole "give them time to mesh and flesh" anymore. 6 years to see results, and all we've seen is a fall from 3rd to 4th and staying stagnant. Thank God Crown is still able to pull in the talent.

Didn’t say you couldn’t speak your opinion, but to ditch the design team after 4 competitive years is a stretch. And I was saying they are paid by crown and only their decisions matter when it comes to show design regarding Crown. I’ve seen very poignant opinions in here about things that could have made it better, including yours, but that doesn’t mean the show design team should go away. This show was slated for 2020, but without any feedback other than your own voices for 2 years then it’s hard to make changes that would make the design better in the long run. I have my own opinions about the show design and what could have happened but I don’t think Crown should move on quite yet for being “stagnant”. Again, we are blinded by wanting to win. I am a competitive person and would love for them to win every year, but at the end of the day I’m not upset with their finish this year. Being 4th this year when so many corps were so good and 10 corps scored above 90 is not a failure. They pull in talent and keep talent because their shows are fun, challenging, and the staff gives them a great time. I knew someone who marching in 2019 and he said it was the best summer of his life and the best summer of drum corps he had ever had, so the staff is doing something right

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16 minutes ago, CrownBariDad said:

Didn't Crown lose part of their design team to BAC around 6 years ago? It takes time to see the results or rebuild.

Yes they did, and 6 years to work together is plenty. Look at what the Cadets team has been able to accomplish. They're back in the top 6 after fans were calling for their demise.  I think the time to be lenient is over. It's time to start calling for results. I'm not asking for a championship, I'm asking for them to start winning captions again other than brass and to move up in the final standings. The talent is there, but the design team can't figure things out on their end. Crown also needs to have a sit down and focus on percussion. Brass is just fine and will be even if they focus on building their percussion captions.

5 minutes ago, TigerBaritone19 said:

Didn’t say you couldn’t speak your opinion, but to ditch the design team after 4 competitive years is a stretch. And I was saying they are paid by crown and only their decisions matter when it comes to show design regarding Crown. I’ve seen very poignant opinions in here about things that could have made it better, including yours, but that doesn’t mean the show design team should go away. This show was slated for 2020, but without any feedback other than your own voices for 2 years then it’s hard to make changes that would make the design better in the long run. I have my own opinions about the show design and what could have happened but I don’t think Crown should move on quite yet for being “stagnant”. Again, we are blinded by wanting to win. I am a competitive person and would love for them to win every year, but at the end of the day I’m not upset with their finish this year. Being 4th this year when so many corps were so good and 10 corps scored above 90 is not a failure. They pull in talent and keep talent because their shows are fun, challenging, and the staff gives them a great time. I knew someone who marching in 2019 and he said it was the best summer of his life and the best summer of drum corps he had ever had, so the staff is doing something right

See above. I'm not asking for a championship, I'm asking for better results. The talent is there, but the design team can't figure it out. If they can't figure out how to work together to deliver a single cohesive idea to the field, it's time to start looking elsewhere, and I believe they could do that if one person wasn't standing in their way. Sure the kids are having the time of their lives, especially when there are no scandals coming from the Crown team, but you will start to lose talent if you can't deliver results. That's my opinion, just like you have yours. I'm just speaking from years of experience on the subject. Like it or not, if better results aren't found soon, Crown will start to slip and doors will be left cracked open for others to bust through.

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12 hours ago, TigerBaritone19 said:

The show design could have been better, yes. But they get paid to do what they do at Crown and everyone on here is behind a screen telling them what to do, and not even a few days after they finished their first tour in 3 years. Relax. It got 4th place, hardly a failure. All season I was caught up in numbers because Crown was doing well and I wanted them to score a certain number each night. But once Finals rolled around, and I watched that performance, numbers and placement meant nothing. Winning meant nothing. The crowd participated and responded. One of two of the loudest reactions that night. The show was fun and the brass was fantastic. CrownGuard is back and the percussion is much better than 2012-2014 (some would say it was a train wreck this year because of numbers). Might I remind people that the Leon May and Townsend team only won one championship. As fantastic as that team is, they only won once (I would argue they should have won multiple times, but that is beside the point). That one championship was years in the making. We are on year 4 of this design team and they have stayed consistently around the top 3 each year, which many corps would kill for if they completely overhauled their design teams.

All of this to say, don't hit the "eject" button just yet for crying out loud. The design staff are in these positions for a reason. Did Crown try something risky this year? Absolutely. Did it work out perfectly for them? No, but watching multi-cam on Saturday showed me that what they set out to do was accomplished, which was to perform a show that got the crowd participating and that the show was fun to watch as well as perform. The look on those kids' faces tells me all I need to know. If you think drum corps is just about holding up the Founder's Trophy at the end of the year and that certain members of the design staff should be fired or just leave so that the corps can get that trophy again, then you are in the wrong in my eyes. Of course I would love for Crown to win again, but I just love watching Crown shows and listening to their godly brass.

I hope everyone stays healthy and well, and I look forward to what next year brings. But first, let's just appreciate the fact that competitive drum corps is back after 2 years. It truly is a blessing that we still have it.

The demand of the show was top 2 risky I will give you that, but the design overall no. With that said I wouldn't say anyone really pushed the design envelope this year with exception of maybe Bluecoats.

Performance captions kept Crown up as they always do. Time for design to help them get even higher.

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1 hour ago, WarriorWay said:

The demand of the show was top 2 risky I will give you that, but the design overall no. With that said I wouldn't say anyone really pushed the design envelope this year with exception of maybe Bluecoats.

Performance captions kept Crown up as they always do. Time for design to help them get even higher.

The only envelope pushing part of the Bluecoats show in my opinion was the Keytar. Other than that, it was very much more of the same that we have come to expect out of the Bluecoats in my opinion.

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6 hours ago, ZTWright said:

Yes they did, and 6 years to work together is plenty. Look at what the Cadets team has been able to accomplish. They're back in the top 6 after fans were calling for their demise.  I think the time to be lenient is over. It's time to start calling for results. I'm not asking for a championship, I'm asking for them to start winning captions again other than brass and to move up in the final standings. The talent is there, but the design team can't figure things out on their end. Crown also needs to have a sit down and focus on percussion. Brass is just fine and will be even if they focus on building their percussion captions.

See above. I'm not asking for a championship, I'm asking for better results. The talent is there, but the design team can't figure it out. If they can't figure out how to work together to deliver a single cohesive idea to the field, it's time to start looking elsewhere, and I believe they could do that if one person wasn't standing in their way. Sure the kids are having the time of their lives, especially when there are no scandals coming from the Crown team, but you will start to lose talent if you can't deliver results. That's my opinion, just like you have yours. I'm just speaking from years of experience on the subject. Like it or not, if better results aren't found soon, Crown will start to slip and doors will be left cracked open for others to bust through.

They haven’t medaled in 5 years and the talent keeps coming so maybe, just maybe, it doesn’t matter to them as much as it does to you.  

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