DFA1970 Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 19 hours ago, Cappybara said: My point exactly, thank you skevinp! It IS quite sad that people seem to always have a list of ways BD’s shows are formulaic. All while under the delusional that all other corps don’t also have their own little recipebook. Maybe a fairy will leave something under the pillow for them in exchange for the list There are a lot on here that seems to think that changing how one looks is "change...a new format". NOPE. Just different costumes....same format. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drum Corps Is Now a Bust Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 (edited) People can opinionize as they wish. The concept of the 2022 show was not good. It was pandering and desperate for audience participation. Edited August 23, 2022 by Drum Corps Is Now a Bust 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZTWright Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 15 minutes ago, Drum Corps Is Now a Bust said: People can opinionize as they wish. The concept of the 2022 show was not good. It was pandering and desperate for audience participation. And you just opinionized as well. Whether you viewed it to be good or not, it still held its own and placed safely in 4th in GE, which is the design caption, and only .375 behind everyone's beloved Boston Crusaders at finals. So it obviously had some merit. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drum Corps Is Now a Bust Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 16 minutes ago, ZTWright said: And you just opinionized as well. Whether you viewed it to be good or not, it still held its own and placed safely in 4th in GE, which is the design caption, and only .375 behind everyone's beloved Boston Crusaders at finals. So it obviously had some merit. Well....good for them. Dumb show concept. Next year they can entitle a show "Just Do It." The old Nike commercial line and hope the crowd screams that out as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drum Corps Is Now a Bust Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 21 minutes ago, ZTWright said: And you just opinionized as well. Whether you viewed it to be good or not, it still held its own and placed safely in 4th in GE, which is the design caption, and only .375 behind everyone's beloved Boston Crusaders at finals. So it obviously had some merit. By the way, there are a lot of just "only" in every year of drum corps. Do you honestly believe that when someone looks back on the activity historically, they are going to hold this show up as something to highlight??? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drum Corps Is Now a Bust Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 (edited) Now here is a winning show concept. Crown could do another space show entitled "Houston, we have a problem." Or "To infinity...and beyond!" Crown's show concept people can try to illicit the crowd to yell back these popular phrases in years to come. Edited August 23, 2022 by Drum Corps Is Now a Bust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwillis35 Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 I'm enjoying all the discussion about formulas in DCI show creation. First let me start by saying I absolutely LOVED Carolina Crown this summer. I don't care if the show placed 4th, 3rd, 2nd, or 20th. There were a lot of good moments to dig into. Brass had a nice and fun book and they played incredibly well...even winning high brass on Finals night. Was it a perfect show? No, but honestly no one else had a perfect show either. To me a formula for creating DCI shows is like your identity. I think Cappy mentioned this. Whatever Crown's formula has been since 2008 I love it. It is uniquely them. They have certainly adjusted it over the years. New staff will come in and try to find their niche within the system. There is nothing wrong with Crown's formula. It works. I mean...they absolutely lit up Lucas Oil on Finals night. So I think the crowd loved them. Now if the question is how does their formula work from a competitive standpoint? Well, that is a different conversation but I will leave it to the designers at Crown to determine their formula and show design concepts and not worry so much about scores. There has been talk about Blue Devils being too formulaic. Well, of course they are. What they do works, they usually tweak a few things each year, and they concentrate on great caption strength. From my perspective I found their show super enjoyable so I don't have a problem with how they design. If the question is: "Can a drum corps create and entirely new show using new and unique (never been done before) methods in visual and music each year?" I think the answer is no. You can't just reinvent the wheel every year, and frankly you can't do this every 10 years. More importantly, this is NOT what most drum corps fans would want. These sort of questions only seem to come up when comparing one show to another in a competitive sense because you're trying to make a point that corps X is better than corps Y. From 1998 to 2008 the Cavaliers had a very clear formula but they used that to their advantage and won 5 DCI championships in 7 years. In each of those years I felt the shows were all different and unique, yet they shared elements of design concepts and music concepts that you could call a formula; but in the end who cares? It worked. They were great and very entertaining. When film producers and directors hire a guy like John Williams to score music for their motion picture they don't tell him to go out on a limb, find a new way to write music, and sound like Hans Zimmer. They don't do that because they hired JW for the sound, style, orchestration, and musical concepts he brings to a film. They could have hired Hans Zimmer if they wanted his unique style and sound. Crown is not trying to look or sound like any other corps. I can respect that. To me Michael Klesch and their brass caption head (Harloff) have been the heart and soul of that corps for a lot of years. They recruit like mad and provide amazing experiences for those members. Michael's brass scores have been fantastic! Everyone has their preference so no need to argue over that. Bottom line, Crown's brass has played some terrific books and they are usually in the top 2 in brass year in and out. How is that a bad thing? I think Crown will continue to tweak their visual ideas and the concepts they develop around, and musically they will continue to be uniquely and amazingly Crown. 1 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drum Corps Is Now a Bust Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 19 minutes ago, jwillis35 said: I'm enjoying all the discussion about formulas in DCI show creation. First let me start by saying I absolutely LOVED Carolina Crown this summer. I don't care if the show placed 4th, 3rd, 2nd, or 20th. There were a lot of good moments to dig into. Brass had a nice and fun book and they played incredibly well...even winning high brass on Finals night. Was it a perfect show? No, but honestly no one else had a perfect show either. To me a formula for creating DCI shows is like your identity. I think Cappy mentioned this. Whatever Crown's formula has been since 2008 I love it. It is uniquely them. They have certainly adjusted it over the years. New staff will come in and try to find their niche within the system. There is nothing wrong with Crown's formula. It works. I mean...they absolutely lit up Lucas Oil on Finals night. So I think the crowd loved them. Now if the question is how does their formula work from a competitive standpoint? Well, that is a different conversation but I will leave it to the designers at Crown to determine their formula and show design concepts and not worry so much about scores. There has been talk about Blue Devils being too formulaic. Well, of course they are. What they do works, they usually tweak a few things each year, and they concentrate on great caption strength. From my perspective I found their show super enjoyable so I don't have a problem with how they design. If the question is: "Can a drum corps create and entirely new show using new and unique (never been done before) methods in visual and music each year?" I think the answer is no. You can't just reinvent the wheel every year, and frankly you can't do this every 10 years. More importantly, this is NOT what most drum corps fans would want. These sort of questions only seem to come up when comparing one show to another in a competitive sense because you're trying to make a point that corps X is better than corps Y. From 1998 to 2008 the Cavaliers had a very clear formula but they used that to their advantage and won 5 DCI championships in 7 years. In each of those years I felt the shows were all different and unique, yet they shared elements of design concepts and music concepts that you could call a formula; but in the end who cares? It worked. They were great and very entertaining. When film producers and directors hire a guy like John Williams to score music for their motion picture they don't tell him to go out on a limb, find a new way to write music, and sound like Hans Zimmer. They don't do that because they hired JW for the sound, style, orchestration, and musical concepts he brings to a film. They could have hired Hans Zimmer if they wanted his unique style and sound. Crown is not trying to look or sound like any other corps. I can respect that. To me Michael Klesch and their brass caption head (Harloff) have been the heart and soul of that corps for a lot of years. They recruit like mad and provide amazing experiences for those members. Michael's brass scores have been fantastic! Everyone has their preference so no need to argue over that. Bottom line, Crown's brass has played some terrific books and they are usually in the top 2 in brass year in and out. How is that a bad thing? I think Crown will continue to tweak their visual ideas and the concepts they develop around, and musically they will continue to be uniquely and amazingly Crown. I am sincerely not trying to pick on you, but every drum corps including Crown has weaknesses and their show concepts are hit or miss depending on the year. Corps don't typically try to sound like each other. It is well known that Crown are known as brass innovators and rely heavily on their brass to be competitive. In my opinion, it will take more than tweaking for Crown to be positively consistent in show concept and design. But, I haven't enjoyed a Crown show since 2016. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZTWright Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 2 hours ago, Drum Corps Is Now a Bust said: By the way, there are a lot of just "only" in every year of drum corps. Do you honestly believe that when someone looks back on the activity historically, they are going to hold this show up as something to highlight??? Considering how many people have said on this very forum that they will be listening to this show for years to come? Get off your high horse and play in the hay. I promise you'll be happier. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drum Corps Is Now a Bust Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 (edited) 11 minutes ago, ZTWright said: Considering how many people have said on this very forum that they will be listening to this show for years to come? Get off your high horse and play in the hay. I promise you'll be happier. I'm sure they will. Ironic you would say get off my high horse considering you are a fan of an activity that is growing more pompous, arrogant, and snobby every year. By the way, you have to believe them that they will be listening to this show for years to come. Trust me. There is much better in the history of drum corps than this show. I'll be sure to let people know when I want a line from the TV commercial stuck in my head. I can't believe that I'm witnessing people that think a show that revolves around a TV commercial line is called a good show concept. Edited August 23, 2022 by Drum Corps Is Now a Bust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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