Carolina Crown 2023

[Jeff Ream]

1 hour ago, nsxanax said:

Now that’s what  I’m talkin’ ‘bout: folks baggin’ on CrownPERC! 

Crown faithful know that’s the third rail ‘round here. We’re painfully aware that it’s been a weak spot for a long, long time. Fact is, it’s exceedingly unlikely that anybody contributing to this thread has any kind of juice to bring about any change.

Oh, we all hope like h@ll or some of the empirical types among us lean toward laws of probability that next years’ battery and front ensemble will vault to Sanford levels, but to paraphrase 2017, it is what It Is.

I’m not saying that the critiques aren’t valid, it’s just that there’s nowhere else on DCP that you’ll find fans that are more aware of the issue.

Now, how about that CrownGUARD in ‘22?! 

see above...th 5th places subs in GE and visual probably did far more damage

[wilme861]

15 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

the percussion caption is IMO the deepest caption in all of DCI. Literally any of the top 10 percussion sections are incredible. And with the math used for scores, it alone is not going to call the overall placement. I mean if it didn't in 2013, it won't now

Completely agree! Percussion IMO is most definitely the most competitive caption and I don’t think it’s even close.

I mean this year was just ridiculous for percussion. Who can honestly say that they were predicting Bluecoats to not just score highest on finals but also win the Sanford? Not only that but I know the score doesn’t reflect this but how many people considered Boston to have the best line this year? (Because I know a good amount that still think that still). And I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure that Boston staff didn’t really change much, if at all, from their 2019 year where they finished…7th in percussion! But that was a very very good line that fell down to 7th.

I’m not worried about Crown when it comes to percussion. Travis and his team are very good and I don’t know any percussionists that have a negative opinion on that staff or the line (until I get on DCP it seems). The 2019 line was very good and ended up 4th behind absolutely filthy BD and SCV lines (both scoring above a 19.8 on finals from Prosperie which is just crazy) and a solid Bluecoats line. Then in 2018, they weren’t far behind SCV and BD and finished 3rd. The first year with the staff was 2017 where they finished 4th. So…where is the problem again? They aren’t beating Rennick and Johnson each year so they’re bad? If I remember right, in Broken Arrow, this Crown line was only 0.1 behind the eventual Sanford winners Bluecoats… if they didn’t have the struggle they did from there until Atlanta or so, I firmly believe they would have been a “tighter” line but still doubt the placement would have changed.

On a real though, people keep wanting change so if you wanted to replace this Crown percussion staff, who would you be getting? All I’m going to say is good luck finding a better team…

[DrummerParent]

3 hours ago, wilme861 said:

They aren’t beating Rennick and Johnson each year so they’re bad?

Exactly.  The caption heads above Crown are all incredibly talented and known as the best in the business- Rennick(s), ScoJo, McNutt, and Roger Carter.  Then Aungst at Cadets.  Crown is right in the thick of it.  Pretty sure Travis is the youngest, significantly so, in that bunch.  If Crown is going to change anything from this year it should be to beef up the book and back off on the drill.  Crown had the hardest drill of all batteries this year.  They just need to write to what the judges want- stand still and play harder stuff and when you’re moving play the easy stuff.  Also, don’t be on the back of the field where the judge can’t see you (or hear you because the horns are blasting right in front of the judge) when you’re playing some of the best stuff.  Hannum and the design team could probably work closer together to get the drill and book better coordinated for better scoring. The talent in the top 6-8 groups is close enough that it makes little difference.

[ZTWright]

Just because you're in whatever placement you want to throw out there doesn't mean you're "in the thick of it". It's ordinals and spreads that we need to look at.

 

2022 - 5th place, .4 behind 4th, .7 behind 1st.

2019 - 4th place, .3 behind 3rd, .6 behind 1st.

2018 - 3rd place, .35 behind 2nd, .4 behind 1st.

2017 - 5th place, .1 behind 4th, .9 behind 1st.

 

While less than a point seems like so little, it adds up to a lot at the top. I'm sorry people are refusing to see this and are so blinded by their love and fandom of Crown to be able to discuss what needs to be done in order to start climbing again. Yes, design needs to be fixed too, but in the order of things that need to be sorted out, percussion is number two so why can't we discuss this as well? I'm not saying let's go on a pink slip spree, but rather, yet again, placing more focus on percussion because the brass will be completely fine for a couple seasons to address the percussion issues so that they won't be considered a hindrance anymore. Crown could be the BD of the East Coast, just as Bluecoats are basically the BD of the Midwest (though geographically I wouldn't consider OH the Midwest, but that's a different discussion), but that's not going to happen without focusing on each sections needs. 

[wilme861]

3 hours ago, ZTWright said:

Just because you're in whatever placement you want to throw out there doesn't mean you're "in the thick of it". It's ordinals and spreads that we need to look at.

 

2022 - 5th place, .4 behind 4th, .7 behind 1st.

2019 - 4th place, .3 behind 3rd, .6 behind 1st.

2018 - 3rd place, .35 behind 2nd, .4 behind 1st.

2017 - 5th place, .1 behind 4th, .9 behind 1st.

 

While less than a point seems like so little, it adds up to a lot at the top. I'm sorry people are refusing to see this and are so blinded by their love and fandom of Crown to be able to discuss what needs to be done in order to start climbing again. Yes, design needs to be fixed too, but in the order of things that need to be sorted out, percussion is number two so why can't we discuss this as well? I'm not saying let's go on a pink slip spree, but rather, yet again, placing more focus on percussion because the brass will be completely fine for a couple seasons to address the percussion issues so that they won't be considered a hindrance anymore. Crown could be the BD of the East Coast, just as Bluecoats are basically the BD of the Midwest (though geographically I wouldn't consider OH the Midwest, but that's a different discussion), but that's not going to happen without focusing on each sections needs. 

I’m sorry that non-percussionists don’t understand what we’re saying. Beating Johnson and/or Rennick is equivalent to beating Harloff in brass and Townsend in guard. Those are all at the top of the ladder when it comes to their specific captions (you can definitely throw more names in there but they’re the names coming to me right now). Just because you aren’t beating these guys every year doesn’t mean you are failing. I still believe this 2022 line was a better line that finished in 5th than the 2018 line that ended up 3rd.

BTW…this is the first year that I can remember since I marched in the mid 2000s where I thought a Rennick or Johnson line wasn’t the best line in DCI. So yeah Crown and the rest of DCI, stop slacking and get better at percussion! 

[skevinp]

10 hours ago, ZTWright said:

Just because you're in whatever placement you want to throw out there doesn't mean you're "in the thick of it". It's ordinals and spreads that we need to look at.

 

2022 - 5th place, .4 behind 4th, .7 behind 1st.

2019 - 4th place, .3 behind 3rd, .6 behind 1st.

2018 - 3rd place, .35 behind 2nd, .4 behind 1st.

2017 - 5th place, .1 behind 4th, .9 behind 1st.

 

While less than a point seems like so little, it adds up to a lot at the top. I'm sorry people are refusing to see this and are so blinded by their love and fandom of Crown to be able to discuss what needs to be done in order to start climbing again. Yes, design needs to be fixed too, but in the order of things that need to be sorted out, percussion is number two so why can't we discuss this as well? I'm not saying let's go on a pink slip spree, but rather, yet again, placing more focus on percussion because the brass will be completely fine for a couple seasons to address the percussion issues so that they won't be considered a hindrance anymore. Crown could be the BD of the East Coast, just as Bluecoats are basically the BD of the Midwest (though geographically I wouldn't consider OH the Midwest, but that's a different discussion), but that's not going to happen without focusing on each sections needs. 

I could be wrong, but aren’t the numbers those differences are based on actually divided by 2 when computing the final score?  

If so, the real differences from first would be .45, .20, .30, and .35 for those last four competitive seasons.  

[MikeRapp]

Crown will win the gold medal in 2023. There I said it.

[wilme861]

2 hours ago, skevinp said:

I could be wrong, but aren’t the numbers those differences are based on actually divided by 2 when computing the final score?  

If so, the real differences from first would be .45, .20, .30, and .35 for those last four competitive seasons.  

For the overall score yeah you're right, but those are the spreads specifically for percussion. Only 2019 would have made any difference because Crown was so close to SCV for the bronze. The other years though, even 1st in percussion wouldn't have changed anything overall for Crown.

[Danby510]

On 8/18/2022 at 10:18 PM, nsxanax said:

Now, how about that CrownGUARD in ‘22?! 

I believe they were the best guard on finals week over all three nights.  Maybe the Guard trophy will be moved to South Carolina next season?!?! 

[LabMaster]

12 hours ago, MikeRapp said:

Crown will win the gold medal in 2023. There I said it.

Reasoning?  A very bold statement so very very early in the season.  As many have said, you still have BD to contend with as well as 2 other corps ahead of them.