lifeisaround Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, njthundrrd said: I think you guys really don't take into account the money it takes to be a Top 5 and even Top 3 drum corps. It is not only about the show design and the staff. It is the tour and how well your tour and feed the kids, time sleeping on the floor, the money for food, travel, staff, props and everything else. Design and staff are a very important part of that equation, yes, but the current top 5 are what they are because of the money that they have compared to 6-10 and 11-15 etc (speaking very generally). And corps like Cavies have done a lot on very little money compared to the Top 5. And there are a few lower placing and even out of finals corps that have money (bingo especially) that don't place higher because they are not making the right design team, staff, tour financial decisions. Just my "two cents" based on helping run a few decent corps. = ) I believe I am taking that all into account, theres a maybe 4-5corps that have other streams of revenue outside of the marching activity. Some is bingo, some is board buy in, some heavy marketing outreach partnerships. Regardless maybe 4 to 5 corps that actually have money. If we want to discuss money and how its 2022 and BD is the only corps running a revenue higher than 3mil (25+mil rev each year) actually has a strategic plan to continue to expand as an organization to serve its mission, I believe is the bigger problem regardless of on the field placement. YOU CANT SERVE YOUR MISSION IF YOU DONT HAVE CAPITAL COMING IN. A business plan is not band = loves = donations, so we can do summer band. When people actually build out what they want to serve, how they want to serve and the possibility of it, is very doable. Do some stats research and you’ll see how many opportunities there are to actually be successful! We still have nonprofits with that doesn't see their board as a strategic partnership and more they see it as a 501(c)(3) requirement. DCI as an entity being the number one culprit leader on not having a strategic board. Also, discussing money, yet most of these corps don't have a full time grant writer/full time development team/full time outreach money person. Here they all are discussing how they don't have enough money, and from the outside looking in, it looks like they do 0% on actually trying to get money in the door outside of band method way. Cadets is a great example, here they are with a brand new 501(c)(3) to make sure they start on a clean slate, and yet they didn't hire anyone that can actually bring the money in. The money excuse is exhausting to hear, we are an activity that has been around 50+ years and yet refuse to truly evolve the business side of the nonprofit... rantdone... Edited August 31, 2022 by lifeisaround 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scheherazadesghost Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 (edited) . Edited September 1, 2022 by scheherazadesghost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpbobcat Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 (edited) 11 hours ago, lifeisaround said: Cadets is a great example, here they are with a brand new 501(c)(3) to make sure they start on a clean slate, and yet they didn't hire anyone that can actually bring the money in. The money excuse is exhausting to hear, we are an activity that has been around 50+ years and yet refuse to truly evolve the business side of the nonprofit... rantdone... Does anyone know if , when The Cadets and what was YEA parted ways, they were saddled with any YEA debt ? As far as funding: Corps like BD have a built in revenue source from things like BINGO. Other corps as well as DCI aren't as fortunate. Yet it seems those other corps, and well as DCI , don't want hire people with a background Business or Marketing, especially for non-profits , that could improve their financial situation. This causes them to miss out on a number of marketing opportunities. One small example. I own a small business in northern NJ. Every year, back when they were still in NJ, The Cadets used to solicit ads for the programs for their shows from all local businesses. From reading their programs, a lot of businesses, with no Drum Corps ties, took out ads. Then they stopped. I called to ask why and was told it was up to me to contact them to place an ad. Of course, even if corps or DCI did hire people with the right background, they would have to be open to what they propose. The funding model for a lot of corps and DCI seems to be "keep going back to the same well" (Alumni/Boosters) and asking for more money. They also seem to follow the "kick the can down road" school of financing. Just my $0.02. Edited August 31, 2022 by rpbobcat 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 1 hour ago, scheherazadesghost said: Are we nonprofit alter egos @lifeisaround? I was just explaining this on a different platform. The nature of alumni engagement (whether they donors or not) is one such grand opportunity. Some corps do this well, from what I can see. I think Jeff Ream and others have been saying this for a while no? I caught on, based in my own nonprofit exp, and have been trying to amp this notion but I'm not sure how quickly DCI is capable of changing it. Buyin seems like the toughest obstacle to adjusting the purpose of their board. I've also never seen a nonprofit of DCI's stature without a strategic board. I'm sure they're out there but dang, they got really far without one. I think some of the darker sides of DCI that remain are closely linked to their non-strategic board? Just a hunch. I've worked with competent (not great) development teams before. They make a huge difference, even if they aren't super good at it yet. Hire in a qualified, seasoned development team and yes, you'll see a huge difference. But that probably means corps need to stop hiring in-network, which can cause all kinds of internal staffing ripples without lots of care. 🤔 Imagine you're an alum who was hurt by the activity like I was, but you work through acceptance and forgiveness over the years. You've become stable or even wealthy and you feel compelled to give back. Only, when you go back to give a donation, you're met with no thanks (bc everyone is burnt out and don't have expertise in development)... or you're met with anything other than the unique care that a development team can give you. Development teams make sure that donors feel good about their donations in all the ways; without them it feels like your donation goes into the nonprofit black hole. I'd walk away (angrily) if met with either response, honestly. This literally adds insult to injury and can really damage a brand. I didn't go back to SC to donate, but I did offer my time and effort as a worker many moons ago. I was met with the above response and my work fell into the nonprofit black hole. It sucks and it feels like I was used by the people I thought were my family. I can only imagine how it feels with a hefty donation. I feel the same exact way. Nonprofit scarcity mentality... because the board has not been shaped as strategic. Advisory boards can really be the pits. I apologize that it seems I only speak in rants it would seem, my bad. 😞 the inmates run the asylum. as we have seen since 2018, change only happens due to crisis...to a point 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 48 minutes ago, rpbobcat said: Does anyone know if , when The Cadets and what was YEA parted ways, they were saddled with any YEA debt ? As far as funding: Corps like BD have a built in revenue source from things like BINGO. Other corps as well as DCI aren't as fortunate. Yet it seems those other corps, and well as DCI , don't want hire people with a background Business or Marketing, especially for non-profits , that could improve their financial situation. This causes them to miss out on a number of marketing opportunities. One small example. I own a small business in northern NJ. Every year, back when they were still in NJ, The Cadets used to solicit ads for the programs for their shows from all local businesses. From reading their programs, a lot of businesses, with no Drum Corps ties, took out ads. Then they stopped. I called to ask why and was told it was up to me to contact them to place an ad. Of course, even if corps or DCI did hire people with the right background, they would have to be open to what they propose. The funding model for a lot of corps and DCI seems to be "keep going back to the same well" (Alumni/Boosters) and asking for more money. They also seem to follow the "kick the can down road" school of financing. Just my $0.02. well YEA couldn't keep staff for myriad reasons covered here and elsewhere, so they probably had no one around to do the solicitation. i don't believe they had much if any of YEA debt, and BD bought the band circuit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scheherazadesghost Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 (edited) . Edited September 1, 2022 by scheherazadesghost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpbobcat Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 33 minutes ago, scheherazadesghost said: Do California's unique state laws come into play here? Maybe? Are there programs outside of Cali that rely on bingo as well? I'm just unfamiliar if so. Staff merry-go-round... internal networking hires in a niche activity that we continue to believe most people aren't able/willing to understand. I'd argue instead that most people outside of the industry wouldn't put up with the conditions in drum corps. Some of them are inherent, long bus rides, 24/7 work hours... but some of them aren't and can be remedied. Bingo is just the best way for those corps to have brought in capital in their minds, I bet. One could argue it's a more straightforward and simpler revenue stream than development, but I don't want to oversimplify as I've only volunteered for bingo. A couple of things: 1.From what I remember from previous forums, CA. is one of the few states that allowed BINGO with significant prize money. Also, if states did allow it to some extent, the explosion in on-line betting, including casino games would really hurt that revenue stream. As far as the conditions in Drum Corps, people handling business/marketing would not need to be "directly" involved with the corps' day to day operation. They'd be back "at the office" ,not on the road. The biggest issue would be corps allowing business/marketing experts to do their job and not get in their way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totaleefree Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 There are some good points here about DC finance, however this has gone way off topic. Someone looking for actually info on staff changes would have to read a lot about peoples thoughts on DC finance before they would find info on new people coming to work for their favorite corps 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 16 minutes ago, totaleefree said: There are some good points here about DC finance, however this has gone way off topic. Someone looking for actually info on staff changes would have to read a lot about peoples thoughts on DC finance before they would find info on new people coming to work for their favorite corps staff changes behind the scenes can often have a huge impact 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 21 hours ago, Jeff Ream said: it had moments. IMO i think SCV underwhelmed as much as Cavies, but no one is freaking out about that Well, at least they were top 5. I think 3 of the top 5 underwhelmed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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