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Visual Individual Responsibility


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It’s obvious DCI judging criteria wants to reward corps for individual performance and content.  We see BD do this individual style for a large chunk of their show.  Same with SCV.

Random path to dot. Scattering.  Different step offs and arrivals.  Even forms are designed dirty so there aren’t noticeably clean lines or shapes.

Here’s what I don’t get: why?!

I’m in complete belief that doing something unison as an entire ensemble is harder than having 80 individual brass players.  One little error sticks out.

Imagine if we had the same criteria for music.  Rewarding individual intonation, pitch, attacks and releases.  Music performance is expected, and rewarded, for being unison and perfect.  Why?  Because it’s more difficult to play in unison than not.  And it sounds dirty if not in unison.

The activity has continued to progress in a lot of creative and fantastic ways. This isn’t one of them, IMO.

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16 minutes ago, AzEuph said:

It’s obvious DCI judging criteria wants to reward corps for individual performance and content.  We see BD do this individual style for a large chunk of their show.  Same with SCV.

Random path to dot. Scattering.  Different step offs and arrivals.  Even forms are designed dirty so there aren’t noticeably clean lines or shapes.

Here’s what I don’t get: why?!

I’m in complete belief that doing something unison as an entire ensemble is harder than having 80 individual brass players.  One little error sticks out.

Imagine if we had the same criteria for music.  Rewarding individual intonation, pitch, attacks and releases.  Music performance is expected, and rewarded, for being unison and perfect.  Why?  Because it’s more difficult to play in unison than not.  And it sounds dirty if not in unison.

The activity has continued to progress in a lot of creative and fantastic ways. This isn’t one of them, IMO.

Isn't that (bold added for emphasis) more-or-less what ends up happening with an on-the-field brass judge? At least, that's my vague understanding of how brass sampling works, as a pit guy.

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I give a HELL of a lot more cred to people that can do a visual show that has defined judgeable content.  Transitions matter..or rather they #### well should.  With Pyware available there really is no excuse.  Credit demand and exposure, give less credit to those with less "judgable" content.

 

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46 minutes ago, ftwdrummer said:

Isn't that (bold added for emphasis) more-or-less what ends up happening with an on-the-field brass judge? At least, that's my vague understanding of how brass sampling works, as a pit guy.

It is. Except it’s a deductible for brass/perc and an addition for visual.  There’s a discrepancy that, to me, doesn’t make any logical sense.

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3 hours ago, AzEuph said:

It’s obvious DCI judging criteria wants to reward corps for individual performance and content.  We see BD do this individual style for a large chunk of their show.  Same with SCV.

Random path to dot. Scattering.  Different step offs and arrivals.  Even forms are designed dirty so there aren’t noticeably clean lines or shapes.

Here’s what I don’t get: why?!

I’m in complete belief that doing something unison as an entire ensemble is harder than having 80 individual brass players.  One little error sticks out.

Imagine if we had the same criteria for music.  Rewarding individual intonation, pitch, attacks and releases.  Music performance is expected, and rewarded, for being unison and perfect.  Why?  Because it’s more difficult to play in unison than not.  And it sounds dirty if not in unison.

The activity has continued to progress in a lot of creative and fantastic ways. This isn’t one of them, IMO.

I'm going to push back on this. 

Yes, we all love unison moments. I remember watching the best of DCI videos on Youtube and the 2008 one with Crown and their hit with the unison straight leg marching and how amazing it is. 

And yes, that is judged on an individual basis by the field judge. Each member understanding interval, step size, style, technique, posture, etc etc. 

But the style of BD is extremely impressive as well. The way their members move, travel, expressiveness of visual components. They all perform exactly the same with the exact same intensity, emotion, technique. You can still look across the field and assess each individual and how they are performing with the same expressive quality. 

What you are describing, is why we have so many judges. The field judges assess the individuals, while the judges in the box assess the ensemble. 

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3 hours ago, AzEuph said:

It’s obvious DCI judging criteria wants to reward corps for individual performance and content.  We see BD do this individual style for a large chunk of their show.  Same with SCV.

Random path to dot. Scattering.  Different step offs and arrivals.  Even forms are designed dirty so there aren’t noticeably clean lines or shapes.

Here’s what I don’t get: why?!

I’m in complete belief that doing something unison as an entire ensemble is harder than having 80 individual brass players.  One little error sticks out.

Imagine if we had the same criteria for music.  Rewarding individual intonation, pitch, attacks and releases.  Music performance is expected, and rewarded, for being unison and perfect.  Why?  Because it’s more difficult to play in unison than not.  And it sounds dirty if not in unison.

The activity has continued to progress in a lot of creative and fantastic ways. This isn’t one of them, IMO.

 

21 minutes ago, TheOneWhoKnows said:

I'm going to push back on this. 

Yes, we all love unison moments. I remember watching the best of DCI videos on Youtube and the 2008 one with Crown and their hit with the unison straight leg marching and how amazing it is. 

And yes, that is judged on an individual basis by the field judge. Each member understanding interval, step size, style, technique, posture, etc etc. 

But the style of BD is extremely impressive as well. The way their members move, travel, expressiveness of visual components. They all perform exactly the same with the exact same intensity, emotion, technique. You can still look across the field and assess each individual and how they are performing with the same expressive quality. 

What you are describing, is why we have so many judges. The field judges assess the individuals, while the judges in the box assess the ensemble. 

"IF random movement is done well and looks easy you can bet ALOT of time and effort was put into every step and pathway for every person and wasn't easy at all !

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3 hours ago, TheOneWhoKnows said:

I'm going to push back on this. 

Yes, we all love unison moments. I remember watching the best of DCI videos on Youtube and the 2008 one with Crown and their hit with the unison straight leg marching and how amazing it is. 

And yes, that is judged on an individual basis by the field judge. Each member understanding interval, step size, style, technique, posture, etc etc. 

But the style of BD is extremely impressive as well. The way their members move, travel, expressiveness of visual components. They all perform exactly the same with the exact same intensity, emotion, technique. You can still look across the field and assess each individual and how they are performing with the same expressive quality. 

What you are describing, is why we have so many judges. The field judges assess the individuals, while the judges in the box assess the ensemble. 

I will push back on this.  Individual excellence is FAR easier than group.  I could take 100 random people and have them walk around, dumbfounded on the field at random and say, "Hey, that's what they are supposed to represent, and am I to get credit for excellence?"  BTW the way the show would be themed Dazed and Confused.  Well written transitions, that ARE judgeable (on the field and above) are HARDER and should merit higher score when excellence is achieved.  Making a perfect circle on the field when you put a tarp down (basically a static dress point) is WAY easier than forming that circle with NO tarp.  You still give credit where it is due....not simply because you unable to make the decisions that group work is FAR harder to clean than individual.

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3 minutes ago, Mello Dude said:

I will push back on this.  Individual excellence is FAR easier than group.  I could take 100 random people and have them walk around, dumbfounded on the field at random and say, "Hey, that's what they are supposed to represent, and am I to get credit for excellence?"  BTW the way the show would be themed Dazed and Confused.  Well written transitions, that ARE judgeable (on the field and above) are HARDER and should merit higher score when excellence is achieved.  Making a perfect circle on the field when you put a tarp down (basically a static dress point) is WAY easier than forming that circle with NO tarp.  You still give credit where it is due....not simply because you unable to make the decisions that group work is FAR harder to clean than individual.

And the people judging would look at you and say "No, make it look good."

Just because it appears random to your eyes does not mean that there wasn't careful thought required to make it still look good.

Edited by ftwdrummer
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