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Visual Individual Responsibility

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34 minutes ago, scheherazadesghost said:

I haven't gotten over Myron's passing (and the effect it had on the community) to have a stake in how drillwriting has changed at SC...  been gone too long. I'm trying to focus more broadly on the trends folks are talking about and I urge others to do the same. If I brought up SC, it was to explain my understanding of my own experiences and how they relate to the broader drum corps legacy in direct, tangible ways. Not to compare it to BD. I generally don't do direct comparisons because it's never been worth it.

So I don't get into the SCV v BD thing on DCP anymore. Despite what I think of as a legacy rivalry, firmly grounded in mutual respect, I've been drug into silly arguments too many times here. Feel free to argue your perspective of SC's egregiously terrible lack of unison marching with other folks though. 👍🏽

Also, OP said it himself in the first post anyway...

I didn’t quote you, so wasn’t dragging you into anything 🙂 

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19 minutes ago, scheherazadesghost said:

Ok, so jumping into a thread started by an open SC alum and continued by another open SC alum to say that our corps' current drill is terribly egregious re: the topic at hand isn't dragging us or the conversation down. Especially when OP pointed out that SC was equally as guilty of the topic at hand. Cool. I'll just be ignoring further commentary on this with you or anyone else, Cappy.


Anyway, it seems that the dialogue before this silliness was centering around what folks were perceiving as a trend: that drillwriting in the industry is moving away from group achievement and towards individual achievement. I'm not sure I have a grasp of recent trends to have a stake. But I'd be curious as to more evidence folks could provide on either side of the argument.

I’ll be honest, I really couldn’t care less what corps a DCP poster is an alum of. My comment had nothing to do with you, sorry you saw it that way.  

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2 hours ago, scheherazadesghost said:

Not really. Individual vs group unison achievement is a thing across captions. It's melo solo vs soli or a solo sabre 7 caught port vs unison sabre 7 caught port. Unison is inherently more difficult because you can't just execute how you want when you want. You have to be on your a-game at the same time with others. Equal pressure to perform is placed across the ensemble.

Achievement in both are difficult. But getting 10 people to catch a sabre 7 port is inherently more difficult than relying on one person to do it for effect... or letting them toss their 7s at different times.

I think that's the point here.

Right. But I think you and OP are both indicating that the industry is headed into an era with more scatter drill and staging. Some of us lament that if so because we value the arduousness of group unison achievement. (I'm not saying BD or any specific corps doesn't ALSO achieve in group unison, obviously that's not a problem... merely trying to understand if OP and you are identifying the same trend but feeling differently about it.)


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 My point(while i might not be doing a good job at making it) is, there is transition in what BD does... just like moving into one formation has a transition...  often these individuals aren't playing as they step out of the formation to move to hit a point.  You're seeing this is WGI as well... most notably for me with ONYX this season.. individual movements into a big block.    You're always going to find people with different opinions on this and ultimately the kiddos are all that matters... right?  One can hope they stay off these boards and don't see some of this stuff..  In my opinion all you have to do is look at the growth in the attendance .. the people that matter in keeping this activity alive ..those supporting the activity with money.. going to shows, buying merch...  sponsoring memberships.  That is where our time and energy needs to be spent.   Opinions are fun.. but folks are either fans of the activity or they are just don't like BD.   It seems one way or the other...  I'll never understand it.

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Honestly, I thought BD had more of a visual ensemble approach than many other groups this year. At least, a less individualistic visual program than they usually do. A lot of ensemble moments (pristinely clean and clear) like the opening body work in the circle and the full horn line pinwheel come to mind. 

This is an interesting topic because it brings up the concepts of perception of a whole visual affect but also how it’s approached by the membership. 

An example would be, I marched SCV just as they were transitioning to incorporating more modern visual elements (body, staging, etc). The shows I marched still had much more traditional marching as a whole, but the visual approach was entirely individualistic (dots, no referencing of others for ensemble visual alignment). And yet collectively, unison visual impact was created. It’s an interesting breakdown of design, approach, and reception.

In a way, I kind of view it all as individual achievement oriented and when it’s executed individually well, the ensemble effect is created. Something I feel BD does better than anyone most of the time

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4 hours ago, Cappybara said:

It is interesting that BD is the one that gets criticized the most for scatter drill. They actually march a fair amount of drill. SCV has been egregiously terrible about lack of unison marching ever since Gaines took over

Every corps does it.  The problem, as I see it, is that is that scatter drill getting equal or BETTER scoring than those doing more judgable content aka whole unit drill etc.  If that is indeed the case it needs to be corrected on the sheets IMHO.  OR if this is already on the sheets in some form judges need to be more inclined to give score where score is due.  If you lean on soloists vs a unison line you need to weigh this on which is harder and judge accordingly.  Just like leaning on your amplification and something is messed up you need to be taking scoring hits on these things.  The overuse of scatter drill is one thing.  Personally I find it LAZY from a drill writing perspective, that is just me and realizing Pyware is used.  Overuse of the pit and percussion section vs horn line play is another.  Ensemble playing should be scored higher.  IMHO there needs to be minimums..but that is me.  This is DCI not WGI.  You don't bring 80 horns on the field to move around and not play for the vast majority of the show.

Edited by Mello Dude
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23 hours ago, ftwdrummer said:

Just because it appears random to your eyes does not mean that there wasn't careful thought required to make it still look good.


To use an example from a different competitive activity...I'm a sabre fencer.  I also teach, and one thing I do on the strip -- and which i find very difficult to teach -- is the idea of "randomly" moving my blade around so my opponent doesn't quote know where I'm going to attack.  it may look random, but I know exactly where my blade is and can attack wherever I see an opening, especially if my opponent chases my blade.

Watch the first touch from this vid of a team sabre match (2017 worlds).  Hartung (on left) had no idea where Anstett (right) was going to go or when....but Anstett knew exactly what the plan was.   That takes thought and training, even though it looked entirely random. (note...France ended up winning this match 45-44...probably the greatest comeback I've ever seen...and it was only a round of 16 bout....not even quarter finals yet).


Edited by 84BDsop
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