WGI suspends Diamante - abuse investigation

[Terri Schehr]

4 hours ago, mingusmonk said:

 

CW: SOME BASIC DESCRIPTIONS OF ABUSE

Summary: Multiple former students of Mario Ramirez have come forward publicly. They make claims of grooming and sexual relations while they were students of Mario. According to the survivors, the relations happened at camps and/or while on tour with Diamante, Mandarins. The descriptions are that physical relations would start when they were technically no longer minors, but Mario would mention that he was interested in them when before they became adults, in the grooming process.

Mario and his wife run Diamante and have taught or consulted with countless scholastic band and guard programs. He was most notably teaching at Ayala and Mandarins and was separated from both jobs around the time of the Ike Jackson investigation (Thread linked above for those that weren't around or do not remember.)

 

*** all of the information summarized here has been taken from public social media posts by multiple survivors ***

Good Lord. 🤦‍♀️🤮

[contraguard05]

17 hours ago, Orwellian Wiress said:

How hard is it to be a good person? Not just in drum corps, but in life?

Isn't that one of the core tenets of why we want people in this activity? To make them better people? How can that be achieved with such rot in the leadership?

[scheherazadesghost]

25 minutes ago, contraguard05 said:

Isn't that one of the core tenets of why we want people in this activity? To make them better people? How can that be achieved with such rot in the leadership?

I think it's the "making" them better that's the problem. The approach is wrong, but probably exactly how leadership and instructional staff are thinking. You can't "make" people better without unjustifiably judging them first, then assuming that you know better. That's not pedagogically sound now and never has been.

The best teachers in the activity, historically, have been those that respect the intelligence and grit of all MMs, and safely innervate their ability to shine. I learned that from some of the best. There was never yelling, belittling, or boundary violations from those cats.. because they had earned our respect over time by consistently demonstrating that they cared about us.

If I felt like I'd seen a corp/winterguard demonstrate that they were a safe place for ME to work (let alone safe for the members to march,) I would be knocking on their door for a job. I don't see it yet.

[IllianaLancerContra]

50 minutes ago, contraguard05 said:

Isn't that one of the core tenets of why we want people in this activity? To make them better people? How can that be achieved with such rot in the leadership?

There are ‘good’ people in Drum Corps.  
 

What we have here is an example or Schopenhauer’s Law of Entropy:

If you add a spoonful of wine to a bucket of sewage, you have sewage. 
And if you add a spoonful of sewage to a bucket of wine, you have sewage. 

[Tim K]

Regarding this specific situation, we hear of an instructor who attempted to lure some students and is accused of actually luring other students who were no longer minors. A no fraternization policy could have been a deterrent and would have set clear boundaries. Most, if not all colleges have such policies. I know of a situation where an athletic trainer was fired from his job at a local college. He joined a group of athletes at a local watering hole, all of whom were of legal age, none were drinking excessively. He was also a graduate student as well so he assumed he was just getting together with other students but his joining them was deemed a violation of the no fraternization policy. 

WGI and DCI should have clear no fraternization policies. It should include marching members and volunteers who are the same age as marching members. I understand it’s not foolproof, it gets complicated, and specifics need to be ironed out, but it’s a step in an important direction.
 

[George Dixon]

Man we got to get these sickos OUT of all aspects of this activity - a national DB for the marching arts is a MUST - glad they took action.

[IllianaLancerContra]

24 minutes ago, George Dixon said:

Man we got to get these sickos OUT of all aspects of this activity - a national DB for the marching arts is a MUST - glad they took action.

I agree that while a national database sounds good,  it would be hard to implement.   Who or whom make the decisions to add someone to the database?   What if the individual disagrees?  What if someone sues the DB-maintaining organization over whether they should be in the DB?  Who pays the legal costs?

The analogy to the DB is sex-offender registration.   This required legislation to create after some very horrific events (far more horrific than we see in marching arts).  And then, it requires a legal conviction to be added to the registry.  With a single exception, no abuser in Drum Corps has been convicted.   And even that conviction didn’t lead to sex-offender registration.  

[greg_orangecounty]

Sick of seeing this again and again and again.  I'm all for castration for convicted perps of sexual abuse and I don't mean chemically.  Enough is enough. 

 

 

[Phantom56]

Sexual abuse occurs and is continuing to occur in virtually all aspects of society. Sports, churches, families ( the majority of sexual abuse occurs within family units). And on and on.  Fortunately, today, most parents have talks with their children about the issue, which is something almost no parents did back in the 60's, 70's, 80's and into the 21st century. Thus, the fairly recent sickening sexual abuse that occured at Penn State, Michigan State, gymnastics, etc.  Drum corps and WGI are no better, or worse, in that respect. We can only encourage and demand that DCI and WGI actually enforce and moniter the safety procedures they have now put in place.  Sexual abuse and bullying are not going to end, but the incidence of it can be greatly minimized and penalized, if everyone in the activity reports it,  and the issue remains front and center.  

[IllianaLancerContra]

1 hour ago, Phantom56 said:

Sexual abuse occurs and is continuing to occur in virtually all aspects of society. Sports, churches, families ( the majority of sexual abuse occurs within family units). And on and on.  Fortunately, today, most parents have talks with their children about the issue, which is something almost no parents did back in the 60's, 70's, 80's and into the 21st century. Thus, the fairly recent sickening sexual abuse that occured at Penn State, Michigan State, gymnastics, etc.  Drum corps and WGI are no better, or worse, in that respect. We can only encourage and demand that DCI and WGI actually enforce and moniter the safety procedures they have now put in place.  Sexual abuse and bullying are not going to end, but the incidence of it can be greatly minimized and penalized, if everyone in the activity reports it,  and the issue remains front and center.  

Yes.  And something just happened at Ohio State concerning one of the athletes physicians who is accused of abuse & statute of limitations being tossed out