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WGI suspends Diamante - abuse investigation


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23 minutes ago, IllianaLancerContra said:

Perception is reality. 

Just picturing this conversation between a DCI head and parent of a potential member.

DCI: we’re clean

Parent: you declared yourself clean

DCI: ahhhhhhh….

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1 hour ago, Lance said:

Yeah, instead of WGI/DCI, I should have said individual orgs because the supposed governing orgs are indeed feckless regarding issues of abuse...seems intentional to me, really.

Because they wait for it to die down and then business as usual.  

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So, first, I completely agree about not naming names publicly without a lawyer's advice. One reason people post their reports publicly, though, is because they have barriers ("perceived" or actual) to accessing the resources mentioned in this thread. Until the industry's channels for reporting are clear, transparent, and have the power to hold abusers accountable ((and protect the dignity of survivors)) this will be the case.

If the recent report on Academy on reddit is any indicator, Gen Z does not necessarily have the patience to overcome those barriers to access... they're jumping straight into public disclosure. That's why our online communities are so crucial now. We don't have best-case scenarios to use as models for our younger community members.

In that thread on reddit, I discussed the safety of naming names. This "lawyer" offered the advice below. I remain unconvinced.

https://postimg.cc/LgfpRCHr

https://postimg.cc/hh7g9j9p

https://postimg.cc/3k9HKDTJ

https://postimg.cc/RWvB5L2D

In my particular situation, lawyers won't take my case because of the statute of limitations... so, further proof that the community includes a variety of survivors with different pathways to reconciliation. I've left as many giant breadcrumbs as I feel I possibly could while protecting my own safety. This is the advice that MAASIN provided me in April. A younger survivor might argue that withholding names protects the abusers' identities too much and perpetuates their capacity to find work in the industry. I can't blame anyone with that perspective and am deeply grateful to those survivors who have courageously named names and/or put their own names and reputations on the line.

To confirm, I am not a lawyer and I am not advising on legal matters. I'm raising the topic so that there can be a discussion somewhere about this online.

Edited by scheherazadesghost
cleaned up links
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12 hours ago, scheherazadesghost said:

So, first, I completely agree about not naming names publicly without a lawyer's advice. One reason people post their reports publicly, though, is because they have barriers ("perceived" or actual) to accessing the resources mentioned in this thread. Until the industry's channels for reporting are clear, transparent, and have the power to hold abusers accountable ((and protect the dignity of survivors)) this will be the case.

If the recent report on Academy on reddit is any indicator, Gen Z does not necessarily have the patience to overcome those barriers to access... they're jumping straight into public disclosure. That's why our online communities are so crucial now. We don't have best-case scenarios to use as models for our younger community members.

In that thread on reddit, I discussed the safety of naming names. This "lawyer" offered the advice below. I remain unconvinced.

https://postimg.cc/LgfpRCHr

https://postimg.cc/hh7g9j9p

https://postimg.cc/3k9HKDTJ

https://postimg.cc/RWvB5L2D

In my particular situation, lawyers won't take my case because of the statute of limitations... so, further proof that the community includes a variety of survivors with different pathways to reconciliation. I've left as many giant breadcrumbs as I feel I possibly could while protecting my own safety. This is the advice that MAASIN provided me in April. A younger survivor might argue that withholding names protects the abusers' identities too much and perpetuates their capacity to find work in the industry. I can't blame anyone with that perspective and am deeply grateful to those survivors who have courageously named names and/or put their own names and reputations on the line.

To confirm, I am not a lawyer and I am not advising on legal matters. I'm raising the topic so that there can be a discussion somewhere about this online.

They could file a civil suit.  There is no statute of limitations and they’d at least, have their day in court and tell their story.    The Browns and Goldmans filed a civil suit against OJ Simpson and won.  

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1 hour ago, Terri Schehr said:

They could file a civil suit.  There is no statute of limitations and they’d at least, have their day in court and tell their story.

It's good to have all options on the table for new survivors. Ugh, I hate even typing "new survivors."

In my personal case, the terrorists will continue to win because I have no stomach for legal action and lawyers won't take my case anyway. Also, I'm still recovering from what they did to me and need to focus on that. Besides the abusers all live in different states, all work for different corps/corps adjacent companies now, and the org where it happened probs can't handle legal action either. Unless someone else does the naming based on my report, I'll remain mum on it. Even then, I probably won't say anything bc the fear of retaliation is still too great for me. I just provided my case again to indicate that no one single solution exists for the diversity of survivors of abuse in this industry. To your point, I'm sure there are others in my shoes who can take action in civil courts. More power to them.

I'm genuinely more concerned about younger survivors who have nowhere to turn when this happens to them. MAASIN provided the basics for me, but still helped open a can of worms that ultimately left me more insulted by the corps' leadership reaction than if I hadn't engaged at all. I can't say that's common, but it sucked for me.

Many survivors I've spoken to already survived traumas prior to entering corps. That's often exactly who these abusers target in drum corps and in life. Advocating for their protection and closure helps them and the industry... that does indirectly help me too.

I guess my first question is how equipped are teenagers and 20 somethings to 1st recognize what they experienced as abuse and 2nd take civil legal action. I would argue, based on my experience alone, that most young people aren't equipped for that. Took me 20 years to even come close.

Even then, I'm bullied in all platforms for speaking my truth and advocating for the safety of others. I would argue that younger survivors will tend to just dissociate entirely so they don't have to fight with the community just to be heard. That's what I did... and am constantly at war with myself for coming back and even trying.

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41 minutes ago, scheherazadesghost said:

 

I guess my first question is how equipped are teenagers and 20 somethings to 1st recognize what they experienced as abuse and 2nd take civil legal action. I would argue, based on my experience alone, that most young people aren't equipped for that. 

Big part of my govt training was for the non-management (IOW workers) who might face abuse. There was the “this is NOT allowed” and then the grey areas where some might feel harassed/abused and some might not be bothered by the same behavior. And this difference in opinion is OK and if someone feels uncomfortable by certain behavior then that behavior should stop. And no giving that person BS that they feel uncomfortable.

And the BIG PIECE is what members can do when they feel threatened or harassed. For me it was who is the first person to report to. And if you DON’T TRUST that person, who to go to next. And the all important part of keeping a record of when incidents happened, what was done and possible witnesses for later. 

Every time I read that measures are geared toward corps management and staff but members are not mentioned, I cringe. That means the leaders do NOT get it.

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1 hour ago, scheherazadesghost said:

It's good to have all options on the table for new survivors. Ugh, I hate even typing "new survivors."

In my personal case, the terrorists will continue to win because I have no stomach for legal action and lawyers won't take my case anyway. Also, I'm still recovering from what they did to me and need to focus on that. Besides the abusers all live in different states, all work for different corps/corps adjacent companies now, and the org where it happened probs can't handle legal action either. Unless someone else does the naming based on my report, I'll remain mum on it. Even then, I probably won't say anything bc the fear of retaliation is still too great for me. I just provided my case again to indicate that no one single solution exists for the diversity of survivors of abuse in this industry. To your point, I'm sure there are others in my shoes who can take action in civil courts. More power to them.

I'm genuinely more concerned about younger survivors who have nowhere to turn when this happens to them. MAASIN provided the basics for me, but still helped open a can of worms that ultimately left me more insulted by the corps' leadership reaction than if I hadn't engaged at all. I can't say that's common, but it sucked for me.

Many survivors I've spoken to already survived traumas prior to entering corps. That's often exactly who these abusers target in drum corps and in life. Advocating for their protection and closure helps them and the industry... that does indirectly help me too.

I guess my first question is how equipped are teenagers and 20 somethings to 1st recognize what they experienced as abuse and 2nd take civil legal action. I would argue, based on my experience alone, that most young people aren't equipped for that. Took me 20 years to even come close.

Even then, I'm bullied in all platforms for speaking my truth and advocating for the safety of others. I would argue that younger survivors will tend to just dissociate entirely so they don't have to fight with the community just to be heard. That's what I did... and am constantly at war with myself for coming back and even trying.

You probably don’t know this but ten years ago, I actually put my money where my mouth is and tried to do something about this.  A lifetime registered sex offender was allowed to march in an all-age corps.  This corps did open class shows with corps with younger demographic groups such as Colts Cadets.  I sent letters to every corps in DCI and DCA and the CEOs of both circuits. I got one response.  GH of all people.  I also got threatening phone calls and two cease and desist letters.  One from the corps who was harboring the sex offender and one from the sex offender himself.  The balls on that guy… my attorney laughed and responded with a letter.  It cost about $300 for that. 

I persisted.  I had him kicked off a campus that prohibits felons.  There was a show there.   They still allowed him to march in DCA championships and in 2015, I saw him playing with a group at the DCI hall of fame ceremony.  I couldn’t believe my eyes.

He was also in another alumni group in 2018, but myself and someone else brought it out and he was asked to leave.

I emailed Tricia Nadolny in 2018 after the article about the brave survivors from the Cadets and told her all about the complete disregard of DCI and DCA about a lifetime registered sex offender in a drum corps.  She then wrote an article about what happened, contacting the survivor of that guy.  

Men in high positions said terrible things about the young woman survivor of this cretin.  “She wanted it”.  “You don’t know this girl”. 

 

So just keep waiting for someone to “do something “.  Good luck. 

Edited by Terri Schehr
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14 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said:

Big part of my govt training was for the non-management (IOW workers) who might face abuse. There was the “this is NOT allowed” and then the grey areas where some might feel harassed/abused and some might not be bothered by the same behavior. And this difference in opinion is OK and if someone feels uncomfortable by certain behavior then that behavior should stop. And no giving that person BS that they feel uncomfortable.

Gaslighting. It's everywhere.

Similarly, I think this is where the argument about "false" accusations comes up for some. If I didn't experience the behavior as abuse/harassment, but Laura did... and I happen to know Laura hasn't ever really gotten along with the abuser... then why should I believe her if she has a perceived agenda, especially if the abuser writes my paycheck, kind-of-thing? Can you speak to how this is handled in your sector? How do y'all balance out listening to the accuser with innocent until proven guilty?

14 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said:

And the BIG PIECE is what members can do when they feel threatened or harassed. For me it was who is the first person to report to. And if you DON’T TRUST that person, who to go to next. And the all important part of keeping a record of when incidents happened, what was done and possible witnesses for later. 

This is crucial for all people who think they either experienced or even WITNESSED abuse/harassment/bullying. The more information the better and keep that info tucked away safe. Drudging it up 20 years later sucks in a different way.

14 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said:

Every time I read that measures are geared toward corps management and staff but members are not mentioned, I cringe. That means the leaders do NOT get it.

Thank you. Agreed. That's a major read flag for me also.

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2 minutes ago, Terri Schehr said:

So just keep waiting for someone to “do something “.  Good luck. 

Jeez, okay, can't tell if genuine or not through the screen. Beyond expressing my gratitude, I'm not going to comment on your case. Thank you for taking so much action to protect the industry.

That said, I literally just commented that I was focused on healing my body first because if my body can't handle taking action, then I'll just destroy myself trying. Then I said that some survivors maybe don't have access to resources, time, energy to act on their truth. I was trying to be subtle there, but I'm one of those people. And I just pieced together what happened to me in the last year. Can I have little time and community while I figure out what the best step forward for me is, please? BTW, I tried to contact Nodalny about my case, she said she couldn't help me.

I think also that the kind of abuse we experienced was different. In turn, that means my pathway to reconciliation is different than yours. Survivors of drum corps abuse are all in various stages of healing and action.

It does us more harm to be critical of each others' pathways towards reconciliation.

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