Seth_h Posted September 10, 2003 Author Share Posted September 10, 2003 I have never denied that aot are good judges, but certain judges, like Todd Fox, do not know what they are talking about. Translation... Certain judges, like Todd Fox, are not as in to what my line does as are other judges. He repeatedly gives my line bad scores, so he obviously must not know what he's talking about. It's not possible that he just assigns more value to different things than other judges. My extensive experience within the activity is certainly enough to see a bad judge when I see one. [/sarcasm] Seriously though. Who the #### are you? Whether Todd Fox is a good judge or not, YOU haven't the right, nor likely the knowledge with only two years marching experience, to say he's not. Jim Who am I? I am i marching member who has studied this activity extensively and listened to many audio recording of drumlines and trained my ears and my eyes to se what my OPINION of a good drumline is. On the subject of Todd Fox. I do not say he is a bad judge because he dumped my line's scores. I don't work like that. I say he is a bad judge becuase the comments he makes on tapes. This year in our opener there are two quad break, basically one right after another. Is he there for either one of them, nope, does he make the attempt to come over after noticing we are the only instrument in the batery playing, BOTH TIMES, nope, does he say anything about it on the tapes, nope, and by the way, they were ####-clean.Also, he dumped Madison earlier this year and he also dumped Lehigh Valley at the Grand Haven show last year. It's not just isolated to Teal. Plus, when Charlie Pool gives us a 16.8 and a 17.5 and then we get better and Todd Fox gives us a 15.6, I think somethings wrong. Now, why I think Cadets should not have won drums: Their uniformity of technique was not better than Phantom, Boston, Cavaliers, SCV. Musically(as in the shaping of the music) Phantom, Boston, and SCV were better. And in my opinion Boston was better. Also, watch the basses only video on vicfirth.com, they incorrectly play alot of rythms for a drumline that is so head and shoulders above everyone else. Now, I know it is the total package but in my opinion Phantom should have won drums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazykid Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Also, watch the basses only video on vicfirth.com, they incorrectly play alot of rythms for a drumline that is so head and shoulders above everyone else. Now, I know it is the total package but in my opinion Phantom should have won drums. I guess people didnt know that the video was taken in Dallas if Im correct...they were losing then...3rd it drums all the way until Allentown in early August...then they surged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazykid Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Oh... and I'm a pit guy, and SCVs pit is light years beyond Cadets in my eyes.Jim I see that you have commented on Cadets pit much on DCP. BUt the thing that I dont fullu understand is why? You say things like you look for stuff other tha cleanliness and runs. What do you look for, and do you see them as light years ahead? Many judges didnt feel that way at the end...and I know you dont agree with judges, and to each his own, but what is it exactly that makes a good pit to you, and vanguard's pit better than cbc's to YOU? I think that Vanguards Book is mysterio and has more oooo moments as far as "neat" sounding..that sounds dumb the way I worded it, but I think you know what I mean., And as far as battery to pit communication...Cadets have it there...they play sooooo many linear parts lined up exactly front to back. That is communication to me. If people were at finals week, vanguards pit had a blowout it the first 30 seconds in the pit..I think it was during quarters..maybe semis?? I dont remember. Just Curious..not meaning to be rude in any way shape or form! Jason B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth_h Posted September 11, 2003 Author Share Posted September 11, 2003 Did not know that video was taken in Dallas, I retract that statement and apologize. But Istill stand b the rest of my arguement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schleic8 Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Oh... and I'm a pit guy, and SCVs pit is light years beyond Cadets in my eyes. Jim I see that you have commented on Cadets pit much on DCP. BUt the thing that I dont fullu understand is why? You say things like you look for stuff other tha cleanliness and runs. What do you look for, and do you see them as light years ahead? Many judges didnt feel that way at the end...and I know you dont agree with judges, and to each his own, but what is it exactly that makes a good pit to you, and vanguard's pit better than cbc's to YOU? I think that Vanguards Book is mysterio and has more oooo moments as far as "neat" sounding..that sounds dumb the way I worded it, but I think you know what I mean., And as far as battery to pit communication...Cadets have it there...they play sooooo many linear parts lined up exactly front to back. That is communication to me. If people were at finals week, vanguards pit had a blowout it the first 30 seconds in the pit..I think it was during quarters..maybe semis?? I dont remember. Just Curious..not meaning to be rude in any way shape or form! Jason B. To me it's not vertically aligning the pit and battery... it's the musical alignment. I'm not talking about quads and keys playing 16ths perfectly in time. I'm talking about a blending of sounds from front to back. The first thing I dig more about Vanguard is their approach to the instrument. I look at their pit and see professional musicians. Cadets to me look less concert hall. I just dig the orchestral look and sound to the way Vanguard plays. The technique's almost straight from the Stevens book, and I like that. I also enjoy how Vanguard places a ton of responsibility on the pit. As far as I can tell, the Cadets pit has been more color than actual musical substance the last few years. I'm not talking about a pit feature or anything like that... I'm talking about carrying a serious part of the music ensemble. Finally, sound quality! If you can stand in front of Vanguard pit, then Cadets pit and tell me that there's not a difference in sonority, then you need to get your ears checked. Vanguard plays into the bar and gets good sound quality even at low levels. It's all just personal preference. I've been trained in pits of both styles. I prefer the Vanguard style. Not to take away from Cadets... the kids bust their tails. I just think the philosophy isn't all that. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitcorps Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Jason B. To me it's not vertically aligning the pit and battery... it's the musical alignment. I'm not talking about quads and keys playing 16ths perfectly in time. I'm talking about a blending of sounds from front to back. The first thing I dig more about Vanguard is their approach to the instrument. I look at their pit and see professional musicians. Cadets to me look less concert hall. I just dig the orchestral look and sound to the way Vanguard plays. The technique's almost straight from the Stevens book, and I like that. I also enjoy how Vanguard places a ton of responsibility on the pit. As far as I can tell, the Cadets pit has been more color than actual musical substance the last few years. I'm not talking about a pit feature or anything like that... I'm talking about carrying a serious part of the music ensemble. Finally, sound quality! If you can stand in front of Vanguard pit, then Cadets pit and tell me that there's not a difference in sonority, then you need to get your ears checked. Vanguard plays into the bar and gets good sound quality even at low levels. It's all just personal preference. I've been trained in pits of both styles. I prefer the Vanguard style. Not to take away from Cadets... the kids bust their tails. I just think the philosophy isn't all that. Jim couldn't have said it better myself, jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurakemb Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 And as far as battery to pit communication...Cadets have it there...they play sooooo many linear parts lined up exactly front to back. That is communication to me. If people were at finals week, vanguards pit had a blowout it the first 30 seconds in the pit..I think it was during quarters..maybe semis?? I dont remember. Just Curious..not meaning to be rude in any way shape or form! Jason B. Just curious, did you notice the timing responsibilities that the Vanguard pit had during the first 30 seconds of the show? There were essentially TWO corps on the field, split by 100 yards, trading back and forth while playing and marching at 190. I don't remember there being a blow-out at all during finals week........ but hey, I was only on the field, so what do I know? Just wanted to clarify. Thanks for the comments! And as far as linear parts lined up exactly from front to back........ isn't that the goal of EVERY percussion section out there? I mean, really, who wants there to be phasing and ensemble timing issues? Hmmmmmmmm. Not me. Everyone have a nice day! B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schleic8 Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Who am I? I am i marching member who has studied this activity extensively and listened to many audio recording of drumlines and trained my ears and my eyes to se what my OPINION of a good drumline is. On the subject of Todd Fox. I do not say he is a bad judge because he dumped my line's scores. I don't work like that. I say he is a bad judge becuase the comments he makes on tapes. This year in our opener there are two quad break, basically one right after another. Is he there for either one of them, nope, does he make the attempt to come over after noticing we are the only instrument in the batery playing, BOTH TIMES, nope, does he say anything about it on the tapes, nope, and by the way, they were ####-clean.Also, he dumped Madison earlier this year and he also dumped Lehigh Valley at the Grand Haven show last year. It's not just isolated to Teal. Plus, when Charlie Pool gives us a 16.8 and a 17.5 and then we get better and Todd Fox gives us a 15.6, I think somethings wrong. I have also heard tapes by Todd Fox. He's not the best... but he's not bad. So, why is it that Todd Fox is bad because his scores are lower than Charlie Poole? Couldn't the reverse be true? Isn't it possible that Charlie gave you too high a score? I commend you on your "####-clean" quad playing, but it's impossible to catch everything that's going on. It's only possible to get a sampling of each section at different parts of the show. So he missed your quad break... big deal. I don't care how many tapes you've listened to, or how trained you think your ears are... I still don't think you're qualified to label Todd Fox a bad judge. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCIFanOfAllDivisions Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 I can understand Cadets winning drums. I just wouldn't score them that high.Oh... and I'm a pit guy, and SCVs pit is light years beyond Cadets in my eyes. Jim amazing.... light years huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schleic8 Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 I can understand Cadets winning drums. I just wouldn't score them that high.Oh... and I'm a pit guy, and SCVs pit is light years beyond Cadets in my eyes. Jim amazing.... light years huh? I didn't know you could stutter on the internet, but it appears as though I did not. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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