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Confessions from a DINO


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5 hours ago, GUARDLING said:

Score wise YES, caption wise yes, BUT ever since the 70s many didn't believe how the guard influenced ALL scoring and was important. Let's face it (for those who want to believe) Can anyone truly say 27s guard didn't influence the outcomes of that corps. They sure did, believe it or not, Same could be said of PR and many others of the time.

Absolutely.  And at the other end of the spectrum there were guards that held corps back from placing higher, and perhaps even winning DCI.

I won't name names.  

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13 minutes ago, greg_orangecounty said:

Absolutely.  And at the other end of the spectrum there were guards that held corps back from placing higher, and perhaps even winning DCI.

I won't name names.  

Care to expound? It was new territory at the time and it took many corps to catch on to the “ new wave”.

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6 hours ago, GUARDLING said:

Score wise YES, caption wise yes, BUT ever since the 70s many didn't believe how the guard influenced ALL scoring and was important. Let's face it (for those who want to believe) Can anyone truly say 27s guard didn't influence the outcomes of that corps. They sure did, believe it or not, Same could be said of PR and many others of the time.

No argument from me! Our guard kicked ###! But, at the same time, George Zingali was also changing the paradigm of drill, so that helped as well.   

Edited by Jurassic Lancer
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23 hours ago, scheherazadesghost said:

Ahem wut? I fully believe you, but this sounds like a strange way to do things.

it's true

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14 hours ago, scheherazadesghost said:

That sounds much less nefarious than how I took your previous statement. That's a relief.

To a degree, it makes sense for those professionals to have input. But I would think the judging professionals as a group would need to maintain some control over the process to ensure educational and audience-building remain tightly focused. Do the judges guide/lead these Task Forces or is it straight up democratic vote for any changes?

judges are hired hands. do it as to how the membership wants it. 

 

if i were to judge for WGI, i would judge it the way they want it....they being those voting on the sheets. Same for if judged anywhere. you serve at the memberships pleasure. if they don't like the job you're doing, they'll be sure to let the judging coordinators know.

 

when changes are proposed, the judging coordinator may offer input, but the vote calls the shots

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9 hours ago, Chief Guns said:

Wow that is crazy Jeff. I went back and looked at the recaps in 1996 and 1999. If Guard was factored into the scores, BD wins outright in 96 and 99. 

yup. the framework of what is the scoring system now in use came into being in 2000, and has been tweaked ( double GE, doubled MA or the old perc 2 sheet) along the way. 

 

famously in 1986 in DCA, the Matadors guard was amazing,,,but the rest of the corps wasn't. the corps came in 1th at prelims when only 10 made finals and suddenly Matadors made finals....so they could win guard

Edited by Jeff Ream
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7 hours ago, scheherazadesghost said:

Cool, thanks.

So really, shows are written to the meet some (nebulous?) process that exists between judges and designers. And I don't mean to sound so rude... I know the process that's been settled upon comes on the heels of decades of development. And maybe it's more defined than I understand ATM.

But even this process, as you've described it, wouldn't be so bad if it were transparent. 'Cause you can mold a any rubric to favor education... to favor audience growth... to favor member safety... to favor the ego or whim of designers. Still, it reminds me of this:

giphy.gif

Who guides those discussions and decisions? What is the goal of the system beyond agreeing on the rules of engagement? How do they evaluate the systems' effectiveness? Do they have expertise outside of drum corps in curriculum development? Seems to me like the DCI/DCA governing system is what's in the way of evolution here.

Was thinking of applying for the Judging Diversity Initiative. I don't think they're is ready for me though lol.

in i think 13 or 14 Cesario went on a public crusade to get entertainment to be more of a factor, especially since GE seemed to overly award the intellectual part of the triad. funny how in 14, top to bottom shows seemed to be more entertaining to more and more of the audience. 

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7 hours ago, GUARDLING said:

Score wise YES, caption wise yes, BUT ever since the 70s many didn't believe how the guard influenced ALL scoring and was important. Let's face it (for those who want to believe) Can anyone truly say 27s guard didn't influence the outcomes of that corps. They sure did, believe it or not, Same could be said of PR and many others of the time.

true, but the change actually allowed (to a degree) the other visual captions to focus on....gasp...marching ( or body or whatever else is en vogue these days) because too often the complaint back then was "so did you notice anything but the guard?"

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2 hours ago, Sutasaurus said:

Care to expound? It was new territory at the time and it took many corps to catch on to the “ new wave”.

I'm not saying anything profound, just that guards had an impact on the scoring sheets and overall perception - good or bad - even though they didn't have their own scoring caption.  Your corps and 2-7 are examples of the positive.  There is one example (BITD) in which a corp was held back from placing higher - maybe even winning(?) - because their guard was less than pedestrian.   

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