greg_orangecounty Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 On 2/10/2023 at 4:28 AM, scheherazadesghost said: What a waste of an immensely precious learning experience for all. Lost to, ick, competition. I can only speak for myself but I had a fantastic learning experience in Drum Corps and it was because of competition, not in spite of it. The idea of competition particularly in a creative atmosphere has always been there. If it's not acknowledged we do ourselves and the activity a disservice. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim K Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 28 minutes ago, greg_orangecounty said: I can only speak for myself but I had a fantastic learning experience in Drum Corps and it was because of competition, not in spite of it. The idea of competition particularly in a creative atmosphere has always been there. If it's not acknowledged we do ourselves and the activity a disservice. I agree with you (and quite a few others) about the competition aspect. The top corps are fierce competitors. I know for certain that both BAC and Bloo thought their show was better and the other deserved the bronze. They were no satisfied with personal best and wowing the crowd. BD never gives anything away. The same is true in OC. Les Stentors who off season stresses the importance of education and trains brass to play percussion and do equipment maneuvers, percussion brass and guard, guard percussion and brass believes that on the field each summer, they should push their limits to place higher. I can recall a few years back 7th Regiment had a strong year and a few times gave Legends and Spartans a run for their money. The kids in 7R loved it. I do think today the competition can be fiercer at auditions than on the field in the summer. It may be hard to predict exactly where a corps will place, but we all have a pretty good idea. I am sure BD will have a top spot. I don’t expect Crown to drop from finals. Mandarins will not field a corps with only 70 members. Phantom will not be merging with Cavies. Kids audition knowing in all likelihood where they will place. The competition for open spots at auditions can be brutal. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scheherazadesghost Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 (edited) . Edited June 12, 2023 by scheherazadesghost 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Holland Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 (edited) 14 hours ago, Hook'emCavies said: Smh..... kid, you have a lot to learn. Oh? Bwahahahaahah. I’ve been on the staff side of the activity for too many years. I have had many a long talk and consult with caption managers, designers, boards, and the exec dirs for both DCI and DCA groups. if you think this is an educational activity at the top 12 level I have a bridge to sell you. At this point I’m happy to design someone’s set, the rest i'm retired. Mostly because of what the activity has become and how it mimics my daily career (live entertainment) and that it literally resembles life on broadway now, and partially because I’d just like to see my fam that I’ve neglected for it for so many years. This activity isn’t what you think it is anymore. Hasn’t been for many years. you can believe whatever you want. but as long as corps still put up "we need YOU to be this star role.." its still about the design first, and the student second. Otherwise they'd move up someone from the existing group and teach them. Edited February 11, 2023 by C.Holland 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg_orangecounty Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 10 minutes ago, scheherazadesghost said: What I said was that competition isn't necessary for creative or performance excellence... and then pointed out only a few of the ways competition has manifested as toxicity in the past... and finally, that such toxic competition has been let loose on members. Maybe you're referring to others, but what I said was the opposite of a disservice. I only agree with you that some instructors can be "toxic" (abusive?) in their pursuit of performance excellence. That should never happen. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 16 minutes ago, greg_orangecounty said: I only agree with you that some instructors can be "toxic" (abusive?) in their pursuit of performance excellence. That should never happen. When you discuss an instructor & use the terms “”toxic” (abusive?)” and “pursuit of performance excellence” to describe them you have hit the nail on the head. Instilling performance excellence does not need to be toxic. Period. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 45 minutes ago, scheherazadesghost said: I never disregarded competition or its legacy in drum corps. And I harbor no fantasies about that legacy changing. What I said was that competition isn't necessary for creative or performance excellence... and then pointed out only a few of the ways competition has manifested as toxicity in the past... and finally, that such toxic competition has been let loose on members. Maybe you're referring to others, but what I said was the opposite of a disservice. Drum corps instructors who aren't teaching their members to transcend competition are the ones doing the disservice. There's waaaaay more to drum corps than competition. Members spend 99% of their time off the competitive field. What happens off the field is way more precious than scores. Funny story- we knew our instructors well enough & understood that sometimes they are putting on a show. One time were were at show site practicing (we sent guys ahead early to score the best rehearsal field). As we were working on show Phantom pulls up and starts unloading etc. A few of their members came over to watch us. Instructor started yelling ‘again - needs to be more intense!!!’ for several reps. We heard one Phantom guy say “looks pretty intense to me”. I wonder if DCW reporter was watching as well because his show review said ‘Illiana was on fire tonight. If there was an intensity-level caption they would have won it hands-down’. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scheherazadesghost Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 (edited) . Edited June 12, 2023 by scheherazadesghost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg_orangecounty Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 1 hour ago, scheherazadesghost said: Agreed. But it happens more than the public cares to acknowledge; and it's more than just a few bad apples. It's a pervasive cultural-legacy problem grounded in unchecked, adult-driven competition. When it's not that... just honest empowerment of young, talented and driven people... competition can be undeniably powerful. The "only" "pervasive cultural-legacy problem" that exists in Drum Corps is in the context of sexual abuse towards marching members, not competition. I don't agree with much of what you say, but I'm glad you speak up especially as a Santa Clara alumna. Wish someone would have 50 years ago. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craiga Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 I strenuously disagree with the notion of toxic competition, Scheherazadesghost. I absolutely have no reason to doubt you, but if half of what you have posted about SCV is true, they should have been shut down years ago. My experience is limited to BAC admittedly, but I have never witnessed anything on the order of what you describe. I am around them alot....sometimes during spring training as the only non-staff person in the stadium. I can honestly attest that I have never heard screaming, swearing, belittling, lack of food or medical help, etc. And as most folks here know, I'm not some jonny-come-lately. I have been around them more than 40 years. Your reports about SCV are most likely accurate, but as Shakespeare once wrote, when it comes to other corps, "don't dress us in borrowed robes " . 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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