Controversial shows

[IllianaLancerContra]

3 hours ago, Chief Guns said:

That's the first time I've seen that. Personally I don't see anything controversial like what I heard about in the past. I think it's fine. 

But I also understand we are all different. Heck I remember in 2014 at the Riverside CA show, some lady in the crowd being outraged by BDs color guard when they did the tambourine smack with their hips lol. She said it wasn't appropriate for her teenage son to be seeing that lol. 

 

At least one of the Phantom guard members was an Illiana vet.  I asked her what the members thought about this - she said the guard was all in.   Brazale had told the brass ‘ok- the guard will be dancing around you here’.   She said first time they ran it in ensemble everything fell apart…

[bkbass98]

2 hours ago, supersop said:

Anything "NEW" is typically controversial in DCI.  The list is long.

93 Star - "they never play loud, it's too controlled, the drumline doesn't play enough, etc etc etc."

87 Garfields perfect drum score .... similar complaints to 93 Star (same arranger)

88 Suncoast Sound - this show is OUT THERE and I loved it.

86 Garfield (backward company front - "turning their back on DCI" was the complaint)

05 Cadets - drumspeak feature

I love all of these shows for various reasons.  Mostly because they pushed what was possible and acted as a springboard for what was to come.

 

Judges vs Fans? 

Most Madison Scouts shows prior to 2004.  They were almost always a fan favorite and often heard boo's at retreat due to scoring and placement.

BD "winning" all the time by playing to the sheets blah blah blah.  TOo many haters with valid arguments (lol'ing at myself).

 

The big complaints of the past were often a comparison between valuing ART over History of what Drum Corps was or should be.  Now the complaints are Art vs. Formula vs. What Drum Corps was or should be.  Further current complaints are Entertainment vs. Design being rewarded properly. 

 

I hear the following all the time:

"I miss uniforms"

"I miss drill"

"I miss complete songs that I can hum and enjoy"

"I just want to be entertained vs. having a message shoved down my throat"

 

Meh .... as time passes, history will judge everything differently.  Attitudes will change as new things get dialed in and perfected.  Experimentation, Execution and Entertainment is what made DCI great and will continue to do so.  The big question is, in 20 years what will you actually want to go back and Watch or Listen to?

 

Last thought.  I guess I look back at shows I consider a masterpiece (flawed or not) and feel there were more of them in the past compared to what we're getting now.  That's a hard nut to crack and accomplish.  The great ones are getting harder and harder to find.

 

 

 

 

lots to unpack there…good thoughts.

Of course Star 93 is this entire topic personified. Never been a more polarizing show in the history of the activity. Also, first 3 shows I ever saw in person at a live show - BK93, Phantom93, Star93. Loved every minute of every one of them. Still do.

88 Suncoast was a little bit before my time but I could see people not taking to that one initially. Still, I’d think by Finals they would have come around to it. It was/is brilliant.  

I’ll come back later for other thoughts, but wanted to speak (pun intended) to the Cadets 05 drumspeak bit - there were other instances that I can’t recall at the moment, but in WGI Percussion there’s a pretty famous moment from a fantastic Scholastic World Championship show by 2001 Mission Viejo (they of a young Mike Jackson and Co’s tutelage) that featured their snares doing, essentially, the exact same thing that Cadets would do in their 05 show. (Also, total aside…the epic Cadets quad “stands” feature in the brilliant 2000 show, totally done by Ponderosa at WGI in 99, but I digress) 

I think some of the pushback on the 05 thing was a growing concern from people that DCI was evolving into WGI, since they essentially were following the path of a WGI trend (also…Hopkins). Not that anyone still has complaints like that about DCI, as they’ve all clearly been assuaged over the years and we’ve returned to the normalcy of the 70s/80s, when people had no concerns about the evolving nature of the activity. 😎

Edited March 4, 2023 by bkbass98

[keystone3ply]

56 minutes ago, Jurassic Lancer said:

I would go with 1984 Suncoast Sound’s Vietnam show. Many people were upset with that. Personally, I loved it. 

I was about to reply with the '84 Suncoast show. (I think it was 1984?)  I remember some Veterans upset with the cross props used to replicate the Arlington Cemetery?  There were comments that they felt the props were disrespectful.  (Could have been in the handling & set up of the props?)   I personally thought it was effective & loved the show.  Very emotional moment...    

Edited March 4, 2023 by keystone3ply
cx

[keystone3ply]

3 minutes ago, keystone3ply said:

I was about to reply with the '84 Suncoast show. (I think it was 1984?)  I remember some Veterans upset with the cross props used to replicate the Arlington Cemetery?  There were comments that they felt the props were disrespectful.  (Could have been in the handling & set up of the props?)   I personally thought it was effective & loved the show.  Very emotional moment...    

Ok, just looked it up on DCX.  Think it was the Requiem movement:

http://www.dcxmuseum.org/index.cfm?view=corpslist&Corpsid=29

Edited March 4, 2023 by keystone3ply
cx

[Chief Guns]

4 minutes ago, bkbass98 said:

lots to unpack there…good thoughts.

Of course Star 93 is this entire topic personified. Never been a more polarizing show in the history of the activity. Also, first 3 shows I ever saw in person at a live show - BK93, Phantom93, Star93. Loved every minute of every one of them. Still do.

88 Suncoast was a little bit before my time but I could see people not taking to that one initially. Still, I’d think by Finals they would have come around to it. It was/is brilliant.  

I’ll come back later for other thoughts, but wanted to speak (pun intended) to the Cadets 05 drumspeak bit - there were other instances that I can’t recall at the moment, but in WGI Percussion there’s a pretty famous moment from a fantastic Scholastic World Championship show by 2001 Mission Viejo (they of a young Mike Jackson and Co’s tutelage) that featured their snares doing, essentially, the exact same thing that Cadets would do in their 05 show. (Also, total aside…the epic Cadets quad “stands” feature in the brilliant 2000 show, totally done by Ponderosa at WGI in 99, but I digress) 

I think some of the pushback on the 05 thing was a growing concern from people that DCI was evolving into WGI, since they essentially were following the path of a WGI trend. Not that anyone still has complaints like that about DCI, as they’ve all clearly been assuaged over the years and we’ve returned to the normalcy of the 70s/80s, when people had no concerns about the evolving nature of the activity. 😎

With as much flack that BD normally catches on this forum, I am shocked that I haven't seen anyone bring up BDs snare line in 2003 singing their drum lick and then performing it. 

Now obviously not to the degree of Cadets 05, but they did it nonetheless. I remember Scott Johnson even breaking it down in his "Scojo's lick of the week."

[Jurassic Lancer]

18 minutes ago, Chief Guns said:

With as much flack that BD normally catches on this forum, I am shocked that I haven't seen anyone bring up BDs snare line in 2003 singing their drum lick and then performing it. 

Now obviously not to the degree of Cadets 05, but they did it nonetheless. I remember Scott Johnson even breaking it down in his "Scojo's lick of the week."

Hey … I’ve got nothing but respect for BD. 

[Chief Guns]

1 minute ago, Jurassic Lancer said:

Hey … I’ve got nothing but respect for BD. 

Definitely not you brother. You are one of the classy and good ones. I was speaking more in general. 

[fighterkit]

1 hour ago, TOC said:

Did PR in 08, take a lot of flak for their four "killings"?

Haha. I can’t answer that because I was a little too young to follow DCI. I don’t want to make anyone feel old but I think we can guess how young I was based on my age out

[IllianaLancerContra]

3 hours ago, Chief Guns said:

That's the first time I've seen that. Personally I don't see anything controversial like what I heard about in the past. I think it's fine. 

But I also understand we are all different. Heck I remember in 2014 at the Riverside CA show, some lady in the crowd being outraged by BDs color guard when they did the tambourine smack with their hips lol. She said it wasn't appropriate for her teenage son to be seeing that lol. 

 

Imagine the pandemonium if VK had been there with the Surfer Girl or the Sex Cymbals...  

Edited March 4, 2023 by IllianaLancerContra
more better english

[Jurassic Lancer]

4 minutes ago, IllianaLancerContra said:

Imagine the pandemonium if VK had been there with the Surfer Girl or the Sex Cymbals...  

 Curt Gowdy would have stroked out