craiga Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 15 minutes ago, Vuitton said: You're not going get an argument from me on the first paragraph. I like both types of design, but it seems like the Crown style of design doesn't get rewarded as much. Well, it doesn't doesn't just seem like it - look at last night, and 2017-2023. I wish it wasn't that way, because it limits design variation. People said that about Camelot (finishing 4th) and they finished 3rd, so they weren't too far off. People have also said Crown was going to place 4th in 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2022, and they placed 4th all of those years. Anyway, Camelot was my favorite show last year, and I do think it's better than this year's show. But, in my opinion, what I think kept them out of 4th last year was execution and what kept them out of 2nd was design. To me, Boston and Crown had similar designs in terms of structure last year, and Crown out-executing Boston vaulted Crown to 3rd. I also think design is what kept Crown out of 2nd. We saw last year (and many years before) the judges preferring the designs of Bluecoats and Devils to that of Crown. Do we really think BD and Bluecoats out-executed Crown and Boston? I'm not so sure. I don't think what judges reward has changed this year. What's changed is Boston and their design. They have a design that is on par with Blue Devils and Bluecoats, Crown does not. After last night, I just don't see any path to Crown finishing higher than 4th. They were 4th in GE, Visual, Brass, Percussion and Music, and 3rd in Guard. I do think it's likely they will finish higher than 4th in brass at finals, and perhaps a possibility they could finish higher than 3rd in guard, but I do not see them higher than 4th in GE and Visual, I don't know much about percussion, and I'm not sure winning brass would be enough to vault them to 3rd. This year, it looks like Devils won't be winning almost all subcaptions, which means more 1s and 2s for Bluecoats and Boston, and the more 1s and 2s they have, the less of an impact Crown's brass scores will have. It's just going to be really, really tough for them to make up enough ground across all captions to medal. Adding in characters and cleaning isn't going to be enough. I agree with many of your points, but I would like to add one thing. Crown has an unquestionably high talent level on the field. If I were a Crown member or parent, I would wonder why a drum corps who moved in to spring training a full week earlier than BD, Bloo or Boston still doesn't have it's closer on the field on July 16th. I realize that I don't have a dog in this hunt, but it would make me wonder. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vuitton Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 4 minutes ago, TigerBaritone19 said: It was different because they focused solely on audience participation. I went to one of their camps before Covid and they mentioned it was something completely different and never done in the activity before (at that point the app wasn’t announced). I agree the visual package was similar but the aspect of the show was so different from what Crown had done before. It didn’t work (for many reasons, not just the app not catching on as well as they had hoped) and they went to a more traditional style show and got 3rd the next year. To me, it just seems that whatever Crown does year to year, people will want them to do the opposite. Not everyone, but some will say Crown needs to do X y and z if they want to compete with Bloo or BD but they still do compete with them. Almost got Bloo last year and those shows could not have been more opposite from each other. There are aspects that Crown could do to modernize their designs a little bit. I think more integration of props but not to the extent of Bloo because Crown wants the brass to play a lot and having the members push props around for half the show probably isn’t what they want to do. If they think they can win with the shows they are putting out, then that’s fine. I’d rather them keep doing their thing than conform just to win gold. So it sounds like you're saying RHRN was to be the 2020 show? I always wondered if corps kept what they were going to do in 2020 for 2022. Yes, I can see your points on the 2022 show being different in ways of audience engagement. I wish judging was different. I wish would could have a wide range of styles that could be winners. I think not having props hurts Vanguard this year, because the drill just looks like blobs and there's no props around it to support it. It's just frustrating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerBaritone19 Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 1 minute ago, Vuitton said: So it sounds like you're saying RHRN was to be the 2020 show? I always wondered if corps kept what they were going to do in 2020 for 2022. Yes, I can see your points on the 2022 show being different in ways of audience engagement. I wish judging was different. I wish would could have a wide range of styles that could be winners. I think not having props hurts Vanguard this year, because the drill just looks like blobs and there's no props around it to support it. It's just frustrating. Yes RHRN was supposed to be 2020. At the camp they played Chandelier and Benedictus 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vuitton Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 5 minutes ago, craiga said: I agree with many of your points, but I would like to add one thing. Crown has an unquestionably high talent level on the field. If I were a Crown member or parent, I would wonder why a drum corps who moved in to spring training a full week earlier than BD, Bloo or Boston still doesn't have it's closer on the field on July 16th. I realize that I don't have a dog in this hunt, but it would make me wonder. I think that's also a hinderance because the longer you have something on the field the more time you have to tweek and clean it. It's like Vanguard in 2022. To me their was a noticable difference in cleanliness and crispness of the closer than the rest of the show because they took so long to get the final closer on the field. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vuitton Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 (edited) 2 minutes ago, TigerBaritone19 said: Yes RHRN was supposed to be 2020. At the camp they played Chandelier and Benedictus Wow that's crazy. Thanks for engaging with me @NewArpege and @TigerBaritone19 and being open to what I have to say. I am trying really hard to put more thought into how I say things before I hit "Submit Reply." I'm really enjoying this conversation. Edited July 18 by Vuitton 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewArpege Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 20 minutes ago, Vuitton said: Wow that's crazy. Thanks for engaging with me @NewArpege and @TigerBaritone19 and being open to what I have to say. I am trying really hard to put more thought into how I say things before I hit "Submit Reply." I'm really enjoying this conversation. Always love chatting with you, buddy! I know your intentions are good and you aren’t trolling. I respect your honesty. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DAYGO Posted July 18 Popular Post Share Posted July 18 1 hour ago, craiga said: I agree with many of your points, but I would like to add one thing. Crown has an unquestionably high talent level on the field. If I were a Crown member or parent, I would wonder why a drum corps who moved in to spring training a full week earlier than BD, Bloo or Boston still doesn't have it's closer on the field on July 16th. I realize that I don't have a dog in this hunt, but it would make me wonder. They don't have their closer (alternate ending) on the field because they made the decision to reveal it at a particular point in the season. They have been practicing it for weeks now, along with other tidbits not yet revealed. I don't consider moving in a week early an advantage. My son would have moved in earlier than that if he could. He loves what he's doing and as a parent I'm happy for him. Oh, and the way I see it, my son got a week more (in some cases 2 weeks) than other corps whose fees are the same. I expect Crown to close some gaps very soon. 13 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawdn Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 24 minutes ago, DAYGO said: They don't have their closer (alternate ending) on the field because they made the decision to reveal it at a particular point in the season. They have been practicing it for weeks now, along with other tidbits not yet revealed. I don't consider moving in a week early an advantage. My son would have moved in earlier than that if he could. He loves what he's doing and as a parent I'm happy for him. Oh, and the way I see it, my son got a week more (in some cases 2 weeks) than other corps whose fees are the same. I expect Crown to close some gaps very soon. Glad your son is having a great experience! Crown knows how to build shows and I believe you that things will tighten up. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsxanax Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 (edited) Wow. Is CrownLAND gettin’ some chatter or what?! Love, hate or indifference, CrownTHREAD always delivers when it comes to commentary. Edited July 18 by nsxanax 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawdn Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 (edited) I rewatched BA and I have to say what a treat it is to watch Crown’s guard this summer. They were so amazing 2013-2016, and then a lot of stuff happened. They were already coming back strong in 2022 but they have leveled up this year. Definitely a highlight if the show and a key part of the visual package - smart to stage and feature them so well. Edited July 18 by lawdn 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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