Is slotting real?

[Gantang]

I've heard the term for years, but is there evidence that corps are grouped and that it's nearly impossible for a lower-tier corps to displace a higher-tier corps?

[Super Don-O]

 

That being said, we do sometimes see corps breaking into a higher tier. Mandarins for example only made Finals for the first time in 2018. Now they are looking at 2 seasons in a row where they may be top 6. But that's pretty rare. Other perennial powerhouses also see their fortunes stagnate (see Madison and to a lesser degree Cavaliers). But all of this tends to happen over very long cycles, think decades.

 

**Edit - I always seem to get slotting and competitive inertia mixed up. Sorry. It's still an interesting read and a related topic

Edited July 3, 2024 by Super Don-O

[MarkHornGA]

15 minutes ago, Gantang said:

I've heard the term for years, but is there evidence that corps are grouped and that it's nearly impossible for a lower-tier corps to displace a higher-tier corps?

So, performance order at the start of a season is largely determined by how the corps finished at the previous World Championships. They are grouped in threes (1-3, 4-6, etc) and randomized within that group. So Blue Devils, Bluecoats, and Crown will always be on toward the end no matter what show they appear in until mid-season when the order is based on current season results. 

Good evidence shows that performance order does influence where a corps will finish. There might be movement within certain groupings, but rarely big jumps, say from 10th to 5th, etc. 

I don't know enough about judges' score sheets to give an informed perspective on this, but I've heard that judges tend to be more reluctant to award higher scores early in the night, even if a corps performs well, because of the assumption that later corps will score higher and they don't want to cap out too soon. Can someone with more knowledge verify this? Are there spread caps or point caps? 

I think this is where the idea of slotting comes into play. 

[rpbobcat]

51 minutes ago, Gantang said:

I've heard the term for years, but is there evidence that corps are grouped and that it's nearly impossible for a lower-tier corps to displace a higher-tier corps?

During one of the recent Fathom broadcasts Lindsey Vento made it very clear that slotting

does occur.

 

[MGCtimp]

3 minutes ago, rpbobcat said:

During one of the recent Fathom broadcasts Lindsey Vento made it very clear that slotting

does occur.

 

It's "real" but not a nefarious deep state type thing, just a simple math thing. There are tons of performances and judges, and the larger the sample size (IE the longer the season goes on), the more stable the data becomes.

Everyone's show changes, and everyone gets better during the season, which means that you just aren't gonna see groups jump up a ton. It's not (for the most part) because judges are afraid to move people around, but simply that there's just not enough difference to justify moving someone up more than 3-4 spots from the beginning of the year to the end.

It's really hard for any show/corps to improve/change so much that it jumps an entire competitive neighborhood during the season, but it does happen!.

[2muchcoffeeman]

This again.

[alvinpr89]

in 1988 we (Phantom) went on 3rd finals night, no where close to the groups we were competing against.  I wish we had been "slotted" that evening.

[Old Corps Guy]

Those that stay near the top say there is no slotting.

Those that don't say there is slotting.

Next subject.

Edited July 3, 2024 by Old Corps Guy

[brassboy]

1 hour ago, MarkHornGA said:

Good evidence shows that performance order does influence where a corps will finish. There might be movement within certain groupings, but rarely big jumps, say from 10th to 5th, etc.

I think this is far less true now ever since the “sheets” went full digital. Judges now have the option to revisit and revise their scores and ranks all the way to the end of the contest. In the past order was more important because judges felt the need to “save” numbers in case the later corps performed better; since numbers can now be revised, they no longer need to worry about running out of room at the top. 

Edited July 3, 2024 by brassboy

[greg_orangecounty]

"Slotting" is what happens when your favorite corps doesn't score, or place, as well as you think they should.