Carolina Crown 2025

[NewArpege]

8 hours ago, BlueStainGlass said:

Filling up a third of a field with red brick props and tarps seems pretty big on the props... They moved them around but when the bricks were separated and spread out they covered the whole back hash and the tarps cut 20 yards off. I don't care what anyone says they used the props to shrink the field the same way crown, BD, and phantom used props to shrink the field. Bluecoats props took more space than Crowns. Just because people like a prop more than another does not mean it's not big. 

 

I've held that all season and felt now I can say it.

THIS.  Boston also had props. Those hoops were all over the field too blocking chunks of it….very reminiscent of RHRN and those props laying out, but BAC put order to it. But I get what people are saying, less clunky props and more nimble props that work as an extension of the corps.

[DCIFan2022]

For me, I would like a show with the same classical style of music Crown is known for (I LOVED this year's music!), but less props and fabric. I feel like the last few years have filled with fabric of all patterns and it just gives a cluttered look. Crown has great musicians and guard, let them be the show/visual! The guard staging was much better this year and I would like for guard to continue on that direction. I don't think staff change is needed, just need a solid vision (2023 worked better)! 

[Vuitton]

10 hours ago, BlueStainGlass said:

Filling up a third of a field with red brick props and tarps seems pretty big on the props... They moved them around but when the bricks were separated and spread out they covered the whole back hash and the tarps cut 20 yards off. I don't care what anyone says they used the props to shrink the field the same way crown, BD, and phantom used props to shrink the field. Bluecoats props took more space than Crowns. Just because people like a prop more than another does not mean it's not big. 

I've held that all season and felt now I can say it.

I see what you're saying. Yes, they were still props, in a way, but they weren't large props that took up a lot of space on the field. They were stages, that changed in size and shape. The tarps were used to change the aspect ratio of the field. To me, this is a huge difference to the props Blue Devils, Mandarins, Crown and Spirit used for example. To me, Crown's props took up a lot more space than the Bluecoats stages did. That may not be true from a size perspective, but from a usage perspective, absolutely. 

[BlueStainGlass]

3 minutes ago, Vuitton said:

I see what you're saying. Yes, they were still props, in a way, but they weren't large props that took up a lot of space on the field. They were stages, that changed in size and shape. The tarps were used to change the aspect ratio of the field. To me, this is a huge difference to the props Blue Devils, Mandarins, Crown and Spirit used for example. To me, Crown's props took up a lot more space than the Bluecoats stages did. That may not be true from a size perspective, but from a usage perspective, absolutely. 

End of day props are used to draw focus and staging. Design correctly and it's effective don't design correctly and it's never let go. Cavies AI photos are a great example of minimal props that were poorly executed. 

[Vuitton]

10 hours ago, AllRise99 said:

I’m not completely familiar with the term “slotting” although I know people interested in this activity use it a lot, and I’m certainly not trying to say anything was rigged…my question is sincere and coming from a place of pure ignorance:

Is it possible that early showdowns like Broken Arrow, San Antonio, or Murfreesboro kind of fueled this narrative of “Crown is fading and isn’t as good” and then judges at later shows might’ve had that in the back of their minds? Like without even meaning to?

I said in the Munice thread before Crown was even done performing that BAC would beat them this year. It's probably the only thing I was right about this year, but I knew it because of the design differences. Judging is so subjective and corps at the caliber of Crown, BAC, Bluecoats, Devils, and Regiment all are capable of executing at the highest levels. Therefore, it comes down to design, and Crown just didn't have it compared to the other four. No amount of cleaning or time was going to change the outcome. Crown would never find itself in a position to challenge Devils for 3rd whether there was one week or 6 months left in the season. 

At the start of the season, I did not think Regiment would pass them, but that can happen when it's the perfect beautiful storm. The crowd was eating up Regiment's show all season, their design was vastly superior to Crown's, and the judges were responding very well to it. That is like rocket fuel to a corps. That allows a corps that might have less talent in their ranks (making an assumption here) with a superior design to beat a corps with higher talent in its ranks (again, making an assumption) with a lessor design. I've seen it many times throughout my years in this activity.

Crown needs to move in an entirely different direction from an overall design standpoint, but particularly visually next year, IMO. 

Edited August 12, 2024 by Vuitton

[Vuitton]

15 hours ago, NewArpege said:

If they applied that formula to a show like BAC or Bloo this year, they’d be a top contender.

Exactly. They clearly have members that can execute at the highest levels. Design issue, not execution issue.

[Vuitton]

6 minutes ago, BlueStainGlass said:

End of day props are used to draw focus and staging. Design correctly and it's effective don't design correctly and it's never let go. Cavies AI photos are a great example of minimal props that were poorly executed. 

I understand what props are used for. I think most corps are great examples of props that were poorly executed. Props work the best when they are integrated into the overall visual program, like Regiment did this year. 

[TigerBaritone19]

If I am being honest, I think props have become too much of a crutch for GE points when a corps does an abstract show. Big ramps for downside up, the red rectangles for Bloo this year. Is it effective? Yes, but that just means GE is all about props IMO. SCV had a great show this year and no props which was very smart for cost saving purposes. I’d rather see a corps design a show they can convey without the use of so many props, but rather through music and drill and maybe voiceovers (not overdone voiceovers but tasteful voiceovers)

[AllRise99]

24 minutes ago, TigerBaritone19 said:

If I am being honest, I think props have become too much of a crutch for GE points when a corps does an abstract show. Big ramps for downside up, the red rectangles for Bloo this year. Is it effective? Yes, but that just means GE is all about props IMO. SCV had a great show this year and no props which was very smart for cost saving purposes. I’d rather see a corps design a show they can convey without the use of so many props, but rather through music and drill and maybe voiceovers (not overdone voiceovers but tasteful voiceovers)

Great point because it’s clearly possible (as you said) to get GE points without props at all

SCV was .35 behind Crown in GE at Finals, which is crazy to think about

[NewArpege]

26 minutes ago, TigerBaritone19 said:

If I am being honest, I think props have become too much of a crutch for GE points when a corps does an abstract show. Big ramps for downside up, the red rectangles for Bloo this year. Is it effective? Yes, but that just means GE is all about props IMO. SCV had a great show this year and no props which was very smart for cost saving purposes. I’d rather see a corps design a show they can convey without the use of so many props, but rather through music and drill and maybe voiceovers (not overdone voiceovers but tasteful voiceovers)

SCV can pull that off bc they have Michael Gaines as a secret weapon. BD got strong in recent years by use of props with aid of props.  It’s like a football team.  Crown needs to do the show best aligned to its roster of talent. Or pull in talent that can do the show they want.