Drum Corps AF Minisode: Member Safety – SCV

[Tenoris4Jazz]

8 hours ago, Crown1990 said:

If you read the court's order, it's clear that the presiding judge is losing patience with both parties in the case. It's stated that no further motions for continuation will be considered. The defendants' attorney is the one who agreed to this continuation, BTW. Either they hope to get more information from an extended discovery period or they hope to use the time to negotiate a settlement, IMHO. I don't know if the trial would be in front of a jury or simply the bench. The outcome of a trial would be a 50/50 proposition, seems to me. 

Honestly, this case goes nowhere without a jury trial.  Get half a dozen or so moms with kids under 16 and you might have them ready to bankrupt all of DCI.  It sounds like the judge is already prepared to make this go away, so I'd give less than a 25% chance a judge's ruling goes her way.

[olddrummer34]

Listened to the podcast episode. Both of the podcast guests seem to have VERY clear political views and - dare I say, at times extreme. You can't help but think this informs how they view their abuse in the corps. For many  that participated - it wasn't abuse and they are fine and proud of have marched SCV. For them - later in life they now view it as abuse. Im not sure how to feel about it. 

[FormerXyloWhiz]

14 hours ago, Tenoris4Jazz said:

Honestly, this case goes nowhere without a jury trial.  Get half a dozen or so moms with kids under 16 and you might have them ready to bankrupt all of DCI.  It sounds like the judge is already prepared to make this go away, so I'd give less than a 25% chance a judge's ruling goes her way.

The judge isn't just going to summarily dismiss a tort on their own because parties miss exchange deadlines.  One side will have to move for a summary judgment or dismissal and the judge can then rule on potentially dismissing if they think the motion has merit.  Often those motions have hearings in open court for the attorneys to make argument before the judge rules on them.  But short of that, they just want it moved along.  If there are pre-trials/settlement conferences before the actual trial date they'll do their best to lean on them to settle to free up the days of court for other cases.  

[Tenoris4Jazz]

2 hours ago, FormerXyloWhiz said:

The judge isn't just going to summarily dismiss a tort on their own because parties miss exchange deadlines.  One side will have to move for a summary judgment or dismissal and the judge can then rule on potentially dismissing if they think the motion has merit.  Often those motions have hearings in open court for the attorneys to make argument before the judge rules on them.  But short of that, they just want it moved along.  If there are pre-trials/settlement conferences before the actual trial date they'll do their best to lean on them to settle to free up the days of court for other cases.  

We're saying the same thing.  If the two sides aren't ready with a settlement or aren't ready to start a trial the next court date, the judge is liable to throw the case out and dismiss it with prejudice.  The one thing a busy judge cannot stand is people clogging up their docket with cases they aren't prepared to present.

[FormerXyloWhiz]

18 minutes ago, Tenoris4Jazz said:

We're saying the same thing.  If the two sides aren't ready with a settlement or aren't ready to start a trial the next court date, the judge is liable to throw the case out and dismiss it with prejudice.  The one thing a busy judge cannot stand is people clogging up their docket with cases they aren't prepared to present.

I work torts for a living and did nothing but litigation for 20 years.  What you're describing i've never seen happen, nor would it be proper.  If a party says they need more time before trial and a judge won't grant further continuance, it's tough s***.  Trial will proceed and the Plaintiff will have the burden to prove their claims and damages based upon a preponderance of the evidence.  The only way I know of where a court would summarily dismiss like you suggest is if trial has not been held by a specific "try by" date mandated in the scheduling order, and it's without prejudice when that happens.  I have never seen that actually occur.

Considering the additional request for discovery time came from Plaintiff side, when this new discovery window closes I think it's more likely we see a Motion for Judgment/to Dismiss from the Defense side.  Decent Vegas odds on that bet.  Rules don't generally allow for you to file that sort of Motion until discovery formally is closed.

[Jeff Ream]

6 hours ago, olddrummer34 said:

Listened to the podcast episode. Both of the podcast guests seem to have VERY clear political views and - dare I say, at times extreme. You can't help but think this informs how they view their abuse in the corps. For many  that participated - it wasn't abuse and they are fine and proud of have marched SCV. For them - later in life they now view it as abuse. Im not sure how to feel about it. 

if some of those events and comments had happened to me when i marched almost 30 years ago, staff would have gotten one hell of an earful and probably a spot to fill.

 

 

[Ashontheinternet]

6 hours ago, olddrummer34 said:

Listened to the podcast episode. Both of the podcast guests seem to have VERY clear political views and - dare I say, at times extreme. You can't help but think this informs how they view their abuse in the corps. For many  that participated - it wasn't abuse and they are fine and proud of have marched SCV. For them - later in life they now view it as abuse. Im not sure how to feel about it. 

"i don't like your politics, so i don't respect anything else you have to say"

negligence is negligence, negligence is abuse, abuse is abuse. full stop. 

politics has nothing to do with this, man.

"it doesn't bother me, it shouldn't bother you."

"other people went through it, so it's fine"

these people clearly do care about vanguard, and drum corps as a whole. sharing hard stories is good. it helps make things better for everyone. we are all in pursuit of a better life, both in and out of the activity. 

[Babylon]

I listened to the whole thing.  One "victims" said she disagreed with the story of Sheherazod so she just said screw this, and trashed over over 2000 years of Arabic tradition and the wishes of the 140 other corps members, and made her own ending to meet her 2003 standards and changed the ending. Then she is upset the alums and other members were unhappy with her for that.  When you complain like that no one listens to rest of what you say which may have some actual credence. I think her friend was right to quit, but instead of having people look into why she quit and seeing what issues there were, they just saw the "victim" trashing Arab culture as some kind of protest in the days after 9/11. 

" 

 

 

[Jeff Ream]

20 hours ago, Ashontheinternet said:

"i don't like your politics, so i don't respect anything else you have to say"

negligence is negligence, negligence is abuse, abuse is abuse. full stop. 

politics has nothing to do with this, man.

"it doesn't bother me, it shouldn't bother you."

"other people went through it, so it's fine"

these people clearly do care about vanguard, and drum corps as a whole. sharing hard stories is good. it helps make things better for everyone. we are all in pursuit of a better life, both in and out of the activity. 

bravo

[olddrummer34]

20 hours ago, Ashontheinternet said:

"i don't like your politics, so i don't respect anything else you have to say"

negligence is negligence, negligence is abuse, abuse is abuse. full stop. 

politics has nothing to do with this, man.

"it doesn't bother me, it shouldn't bother you."

"other people went through it, so it's fine"

these people clearly do care about vanguard, and drum corps as a whole. sharing hard stories is good. it helps make things better for everyone. we are all in pursuit of a better life, both in and out of the activity. 

Politics informs your world view. people with other world views would view the same situation as "a demanding coach." Especially back in 2003-2004. Times have changed, so viewing this with a 2025 lense obviously it would be unacceptable. But this was 2003-2004. There are many teachers, including the one mentioned in the podcast, who taught this way then, and upon learning better teaching styles and philosophies, have adopted better teaching strategies. Adam Sage is a professional teacher. he still works in the activity. Clearly there are plenty of students of his who did not feel victimized by the time they spent in his guard. In the world of sports, especially mens sports, it is WAY worse. I had a son participate in HS football - the coaches were incredibly demanding, and this was just a few years ago. I could see how it could ruffle feathers, but for my kid - it worked and was effective.