The most CONTROVERSIAL second place show ever…

[Tim K]

4 hours ago, Slingerland said:

They did. The same show (essentially, except for the drum solo) killed at Birmingham in '79,, but on Finals night in '80, it just didn't land as well as BD.

Not putting salt into anything, but my sense was that 27th had a great 1970s style show, and BD showed up with a horn sound that was already on a different level from what else was out there.

I think it could be said that Blue Devils pushed the envelope brass wise since their first championship in 76, but if you ask people who marched with 27th, the focus was first on being impeccably clean, which often they were, drill, and color guard. They were among the first to integrate their guard into the drill for better GE, not to mention their guard innovations that wowed everyone. I’m not sure the same attention was always paid to brass. I remember a few years back in a thread probably on this site where an alum said that was a weakness compared to Blue Devils, Madison, and the new kids on the block, Spirit. This is too bad considering there were some great arrangements by Jim Wedge, especially the Don Ellis pieces in 79, 80, and 81.

[Jurassic Lancer]

2 hours ago, Tim K said:

I think it could be said that Blue Devils pushed the envelope brass wise since their first championship in 76, but if you ask people who marched with 27th, the focus was first on being impeccably clean, which often they were, drill, and color guard. They were among the first to integrate their guard into the drill for better GE, not to mention their guard innovations that wowed everyone. I’m not sure the same attention was always paid to brass. I remember a few years back in a thread probably on this site where an alum said that was a weakness compared to Blue Devils, Madison, and the new kids on the block, Spirit. This is too bad considering there were some great arrangements by Jim Wedge, especially the Don Ellis pieces in 79, 80, and 81.

Oddly enough, that alum wasn’t me … but everything you said is spot on. The problem with brass wasn’t with Jim Wedge’s arrangements, but with the day to day brass instruction which really was less than great. 

Edited October 8, 2025 by Jurassic Lancer

[Jeff Ream]

16 hours ago, OldCorpsGuy said:

Bush was NOT better than we were Finals night. 

i'll gladly disagree. and apparently the panel did too. probably didn't help that pesky 5th place corps won percussion execution. 

[OldCorpsGuy]

11 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

i'll gladly disagree. and apparently the panel did too. probably didn't help that pesky 5th place corps won percussion execution. 

Actually the judges didn’t agree. They didn’t pick Bush or Sun. 

[boxingfred]

On 10/7/2025 at 4:09 PM, Jeff Ream said:

performance caption judges realized the GE stuff got in the way of the performance level stuff.

No, I was on tour with the Cadets all summer that year. 4 days before finals we were winning all kinds of captions and shows. After the boos we didn't win a thing. I was told something different.

[perc2100]

15 hours ago, boxingfred said:

No, I was on tour with the Cadets all summer that year. 4 days before finals we were winning all kinds of captions and shows. After the boos we didn't win a thing. I was told something different.

I mean, Blue Devils from mid-90's through fairly recently have been pretty amazing cleaning going into Finals week, especially when they're a little behind the top.  If your contention is "we were winning the week before Finals week" that was by .3 Aug 4, then by .025 Aug 5; then Quarterfinals Blue Devils pulled ahead by a bit, Cadets closed the gap at Semis to .05, and then winning it all by nearly a point.

I don't recall which night the boo stuff was, but in Semis I was in the stadium and Cadets got a pretty warm crowd reaction for the most part, and Finals wasn't any different.  I know it's not an uncommon strategy for Director/staff/whomever to pull the "us against the world" card to fire up their team; Dave Roberts did it vs Padres in the playoffs last year, and Ohio State did it after losing to Michigan to go on to win the National Championship in January.  But surely you know that most judges are stubborn AF, and while they can be susceptible to peer pressure from their colleagues, I think most judges would not let something as dopey as "crowd boo'ing a corps because of repainting hash marks" to sway their sheet from winner-to-2nd.

[Jeff Ream]

18 hours ago, OldCorpsGuy said:

Actually the judges didn’t agree. They didn’t pick Bush or Sun. 

right. they didn't agree Sun was better.

[Jeff Ream]

18 hours ago, boxingfred said:

No, I was on tour with the Cadets all summer that year. 4 days before finals we were winning all kinds of captions and shows. After the boos we didn't win a thing. I was told something different.

if you believe being booed affected the judges and what they did, wow.

[OldCorpsGuy]

Just now, Jeff Ream said:

right. they didn't agree Sun was better.

No they agreed we were as good as Bush. We tied if you recall. The weird tie breaking format gave Bush the “win” not the judges. 

[jwillis35]

On 10/7/2025 at 3:03 PM, perc2100 said:

I agree that a show that lost by slightly more than half a point is  likely not the most controversial second place finish in the activity's history.  I'd think 1987 would be a MAJOR controversial finish, where the Championship was seemingly decided by a perfect percussion score that put Cadets on top by only .1 overall.  Or maybe something like 1988 with the "random dry" shenanigans that gave Madison a very fortuitous performance slot in Finals with Scouts ending .2 over SCV.

Agree, though when it comes to Madison in 1988 I think the reason it doesn't come up as the most controversial is because once we all saw the score they achieved in Semifinals we realized that the judges legitimately realized how good they were and scored them appropriately for that day. Now were they the best on Finals night over SCV? Tough call. Only winning by .2 and their performance was slightly off from that killer semi performance, but I still think they deserved it.