It’s only fair I come out from under my rock for Mandarins

[OldSnareDrummer]

DCI should move to Oklahoma and open up a casino. Worked pretty well for about 100 Native American tribes. 

[OldSnareDrummer]

50 minutes ago, greg_orangecounty said:

As they should!  😈

grumble grumble. I ain't no fry cook. 

[Jeff Ream]

20 hours ago, OldSnareDrummer said:

DCI should move to Oklahoma and open up a casino. Worked pretty well for about 100 Native American tribes. 

i dont think the government will give DCI the same deal

[TheOneWhoKnows]

I, the Prognosticator of all Prognosticators of the Cult of Absolute Pessimism, do predict we lose DCI within 5 years. 

[waliman4444]

54 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

i dont think the government will give DCI the same deal

Nor should it..I assume the poster was making a joke...in poor taste perhaps but a joke nonetheless..peace

[perc2100]

On 11/3/2025 at 8:08 AM, mingusmonk said:

I wouldn't make this comparison. For a lot of reasons. But mostly because MLB doesn't need a salary cap. If anything, they need a salary floor. Tampa Bay Rays were sold this year for $1.7 Billion! Their entire player salary this year? $88 Million. LOL 

 

I personally believe MLB needs a salary cap AND a salary floor: a minimum salary expenditure and a maximum.  That way we wouldn't have teams who have singular big market TV contract deals paying nearly a billion dollars for one player while smaller market teams who have a 3rd of that revenue aren't able to; and conversely teams who constantly cheap out won't be able to constantly disappoint their fans.  That's part of the beauty of the European football/soccer: teams that don't spend and suck/place bottom-of-the-table get relegated to a lower division/league where they don't have to spend as much to be competitive.  Yeah, I know US leagues will never go to a relegation/promotion system because the lost revenue is to huge, but it's a reason I follow European soccer more than most pro American leagues

[perc2100]

On 11/3/2025 at 3:43 PM, greg_orangecounty said:

Cap spending on what?  Food, housing, medical, fuel, insurance?  Those are by far the biggest budget line items.  Frankly, I wouldn't mind abolishing amplification, props, and pits the size of small towns, but that wouldn't solve the core issue.

In terms of the Dodgers (admitted L.A. native).....explain the Dallas Cowboys if money buys championships (or even NFC championship game appearances).  

1) I'd say maybe cap spending on everything but the 'essentials' that you say above: additional instruments (keytar/trombones/oboe/whatever), staff & designers, props and backdrops, uniforms/costumes, guard equipment, etc. would be a possibility

2) I'd say the same thing about the Mets & Yankees currently: you can buy Juan Sotto's near-billion contract but still have inept management hold you back.  Same w/Dallas Cowboys.  And of course, statistically, with the salary cap NFL has had far more repeat winners than MLB's non-cap league, though Ohtani is almost certainly changing that for LA for the foreseeable future

[perc2100]

On 11/3/2025 at 4:08 PM, LabMaster said:

The issue with a cap is that more corps need to generate revenue than corps need to be capped.  The initial problem for corps is revenue, sustainable revenue, followed by good financial management.  A large dash of common sense thrown in too doesn’t hurt. 

Some corps have built their orgs over a number of years and have developed and evolved revenue generating operations over time, to accommodate needs.  What they see as inflationary and competitive needs.  Their focus is their orgs., no one else's.  They also have excellent fiscal mgmt.  This may be because they feel every org can do the same. Some have. But it takes time.  A long time.  It is a slow process.  While the financial piece is being built, excellent, diligent and legal financial mgmt. is required.  Oversight by a BOD is necessary.  State laws allow some corps an advantage others don’t get. Bingo as an example.

What it comes down to in a simplistic form is corps need revenue. But there is no common revenue stream short of busting your butt for corporate donations, grants, supporter donations.

Next is proper financial management.  Having a BOD with appropriate expertise in non peofit management and money management.  With knowledge of compliance with all legal requirements.

If money is the problem; fix the money problem at each corps level.  Don't dump it or blame it on DCI the org.   Fix it at corps level.  DCI the org should be looking at a corps financial health and report on it. Constantly/annually; ALL corps.  Not only when a corps moves up a class or joins DCI,

just my $.02.

I agree, a salary cap would _maybe_ fix a small part of the problem, but I agree that the larger issues with drum and bugle corps in the 21st century.  I honestly don't know what, if anything, is a "relatively easy" fix for the financial problem, and I agree with others this isn't necessarily a 21st century problem: this was problematic in the 80's and 90's, maybe always though now w/likely more expenses (better food, more staff & gear, insurance, etc).

WGI has such a great model, I think, with weekend-only show, localish membership & rehearsal facilities, etc.  It's still expensive for a season (an Independent World org from, say, SoCA is still spending several hundreds of thousands of dollars a year), but maybe this is a more viable model for drum corps in the future.  A radical change, for sure: one that would necessitate a very different performance model, membership model, etc.  But perhaps the most tenable long-term model.

Or not, IDK.  Maybe it's been a long, fun 50+ year ride and reality is _finally_ setting in.  Maybe something like G7 is a viable model, with smaller shows & tour, less corps, more fan-friendly designs + more community engagement maybe, IDK.  This is obviously not an easy problem to solve, but I'm not 100% if the activity has legit tried to solve the problem (or wants to)

[perc2100]

On 11/4/2025 at 7:59 PM, Jeff Ream said:

the Phil has figured out how to get grants and corporate sponsorships.

 

DCI hasn't as a whole.

And that's because 1) who does DCI and its member corps actually serve and 2) who actually benefits from its performances and competitions.  NY Phil, CSO, etc. have long traditions of excellence but a symphony isn't anywhere near as niche as DCI.  Not to mention most, if not all, symphonies, have adapted their model to pull in more broader audiences.  Sure, NY Phil may have an esoteric world premier concert that celebrates 21st century music that might not fill the hall, but they'll also have "Star Wars w/the symphony" that will sell out.  DCI is a niche of a niche of a niche entertainment option as it is, and their programming isn't exactly friendly to newbies and folks off-the-street.  At least in the old days (which I agree where not rosy, and in likely many cases worse than nowadays just with more corps) performances included more recognizable and audience-friendly music.  Even if not super-well known, I could show my grandpa a VHS of Cadets 1995 show + populist John Williams movie music (that he wasn't familiar with) mixed with the 'day in the life of a small town prepping to send their boy to war' was a show he could really enjoy.  Madison Scouts Latin show entertained him.  SCV's NOT The Nutcracker, not so much.  That's just a small sample of one year 30 years ago, and arguably shows from the 80's or 70's were even more crowd-friendly than 1990's. 

But I guess what I'm saying is that DCI has moved further away from things that kind of helped balance out their niche entertainment.  Even Bluecoats Beatles show a few years ago mashed so many songs in a short span of time, a die-hard Beatles fan like my mom (OG Beatle maniac she was as a girl in the 60's) was only marginally entertained: vs Bluecoats early 90's Beatles show that she loved.  When we think about it's it's almost bizarrely impressive how DCI hasn't really tried to appeal to a broader audience, and instead if moving further away from broad accessibility . 

Until it does, there is ZERO reason for any big businesses or donors to step up and sponsor corps or DCI: why throw money away on a non-civic non-profit org that has little/no mass-market appeal, doesn't do much for the local community, and isn't really visible in any way whatsoever outside of its rabid tiny fanbase

[corps8294]

20 hours ago, TheOneWhoKnows said:

I, the Prognosticator of all Prognosticators of the Cult of Absolute Pessimism, do predict we lose DCI within 5 years. 

I'll be more generous...I'll give DCI ten years. If it still has a slim lifeline, after that; it will somewhat resemble what DCM was in its final two years.