It’s only fair I come out from under my rock for Mandarins

[cixelsyd]

2 hours ago, perc2100 said:

I guess what I'm really saying is DCI has been an unviable activity for a long time now, and I'm not sure that anyone cares to try to reinvent the wheel, so to speak.  Maybe this niche of a niche of a niche thing that started with vets kinda bored at home and wanting to bring back the military parade vibe to those kids today has run its course and is in its last stage before expiring for good or completely changing to something else.  Who knows: my corps folded long ago and I haven't been interested in attending DCI Championships since it permanently moved to Indy/I moved to SoCA (the last I went to was at the Rose Bowl) so I'm not some big money guy or even a die-hard fan or whatever.  Just a causal alum popping in and out occasionally, not too surprised to see "same as it ever was: another popular corps on the verge of going away."  It is amusing that the only thing that's changed is maybe designers going further all-in with their ways but that feels like the natural evolutionary movement of the activity since the 1970's.  Guess it's easier to either think "if it aint broke, no need to change" (which, I'm sure is the case with at least SOME corps in a financially viable situation), or to bury your head in the sand and hope the whole thing doesn't collapse around you.

I see it more like this:

[Jeff Ream]

5 hours ago, perc2100 said:

I don't disagree with that concept, but right now it feels undeniable that DCI is catering to a niche of a niche of a niche audience.  Twenty year olds are not exactly known for being huge spenders, though what the BAC management was almost certainly implying was catering to the people paying hundreds of dollars in audition camp fees, buying souvenirs, etc.  Obviously between dinosaur alumni (me!) or modern marching-aged young adults, you go with said young adults 100% of the time.  However, if you're even remotely interested in trying to grow the activity beyond the niche of a niche of a niche current audience base, I don't think that's the viable solution for an activity with ever-growing MAMMOTH costs and minimal revenue streams.

I can't fathom why more DCI corps haven't set up WGI Wind groups to test those waters: given the WGI model, it seems perfect for longer-term financial stability (maybe less housing costs & travel costs given how many local WGI-affiliated circuits & WGI Regionals there are) that would also attract a mostly local-base of membership that could bode better for future fundraising and charity stuff.  If you have a local base & membership & local engagement, it's sure a lot easier getting donations than "yeah I live in Iowa but I'm marching a drum corps in Northern CA and need to ask for donations to help pay the thousands of dollars in tuition fees for a group that won't even be performing in this state this calendar year."  WGI groups aren't cheap to run of course, but a heckuva lot cheaper than a DCI drum and bugle corps

without 20 year olds, you don't have members. thats why they say that. Now BITD drum corps alumni stuck around longer as fans. But with so many corps going in active, there's fewer corps to have alumni from, and then as members age out, real life calls and being a super fan isn't the option it used to be.

 

if DCI can find a way to get alumni from the last 10-15 years more engaged and keep them around, as we fade off, there's a nice mix.

[cixelsyd]

1 hour ago, Jeff Ream said:

without 20 year olds, you don't have members. thats why they say that.

The last time "they" did not have 20-year-olds was 1945.

[RiverCityAndTroopersFan]

6 hours ago, perc2100 said:

IDK but as far as costs go I can't imagine there are too many more expensive options than an all-Beatles program and that has been done relatively recently (and very successfully!).

You're right of course, "popular to whom" is a fun debate, but I think one thing we can almost all certainly agree on is that zero consideration is had in design meetings about popular music or accessibility.  I know some competitively successful shows have been designed specifically to 'troll' audiences (hi Star of Indiana 1993!), and I'm pretty sure their designers got their results intended/expected.

That being said: stuff like Beatles is going to be more popular to the average, general, "music theater" ticket-buyer than, say, Steve Reich.  There's a reason why all of the symphonies now-a-days supplement their performances with stuff like "Star Wars w/Symphony playing the musical score live!" or "Cynthia Erivo sings with the symphony!"  I think _IF_ DCI corps are interested in bringing in more mainstream audiences/broadening their fan base it would be wise to perform programs that are more audience-accessible.  Of course, a great overall design can be done with totally unknown/original music that's wildly engaging from both a musical and visual point of view, but "all artistic/all the time" has literally been proven in more mainstream artforms to be not viable than "mix esoteric w/mainstream stuff" w/in a performance season.

And of course the flip of that coin is all of us almost certainly discovered some amazing music thanks to drum corps: some of it more accessible (Pat Metheny, 'Channel One Suite') to the masses than others ('Short Ride in a Fast machine') but all cool nonetheless.  Obviously the key is a really great, cohesive show design which every designer in DCI from the gold medal winner to the last-place Open Class corps strives to do.  And heck, there's no guarantee that changing things up radically to try to appeal to a broader audience would yield such success: and could hurt a corps competitively and/or cause other negative chain reactions.

I guess what I'm really saying is DCI has been an unviable activity for a long time now, and I'm not sure that anyone cares to try to reinvent the wheel, so to speak.  Maybe this niche of a niche of a niche thing that started with vets kinda bored at home and wanting to bring back the military parade vibe to those kids today has run its course and is in its last stage before expiring for good or completely changing to something else.  Who knows: my corps folded long ago and I haven't been interested in attending DCI Championships since it permanently moved to Indy/I moved to SoCA (the last I went to was at the Rose Bowl) so I'm not some big money guy or even a die-hard fan or whatever.  Just a causal alum popping in and out occasionally, not too surprised to see "same as it ever was: another popular corps on the verge of going away."  It is amusing that the only thing that's changed is maybe designers going further all-in with their ways but that feels like the natural evolutionary movement of the activity since the 1970's.  Guess it's easier to either think "if it aint broke, no need to change" (which, I'm sure is the case with at least SOME corps in a financially viable situation), or to bury your head in the sand and hope the whole thing doesn't collapse around you.

 

I think Bluecoats have mastered the art of esoteric but cool. The music is out there, and rather unknown. But, ####, it is COOL

[Boss Anova]

11 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

The last time "they" did not have 20-year-olds was 1945.

 The Vietnam War Draft took a lot of 18-21 year olders out of Drum Corps. I did not go to Vietnam, but it took me out of Drum Corps for a bit.

[cixelsyd]

1 hour ago, Boss Anova said:

 The Vietnam War Draft took a lot of 18-21 year olders out of Drum Corps. I did not go to Vietnam, but it took me out of Drum Corps for a bit.

True, but it was not the total suspension of drum corps involvement we saw in 1945... or what we would see now if show design appealed to people of all ages (shhhpoken with tongue firmly planted in chhheek).

[perc2100]

8 hours ago, Boss Anova said:

 The Vietnam War Draft took a lot of 18-21 year olders out of Drum Corps. I did not go to Vietnam, but it took me out of Drum Corps for a bit.

 

20 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

The last time "they" did not have 20-year-olds was 1945.

Heck even in the early 1990's the Iraq war took folks out of drum and bugle corps. 

With the way current US Gov is, I wonder how many non-Americans are thinking twice of doing drum and bugle corps this year.  Seems to be A LOT of hassle just to come to the US from another country

[KVG_DC]

3 hours ago, perc2100 said:

 

Heck even in the early 1990's the Iraq war took folks out of drum and bugle corps. 

With the way current US Gov is, I wonder how many non-Americans are thinking twice of doing drum and bugle corps this year.  Seems to be A LOT of hassle just to come to the US from another country

This is so.  I know at least one of my HS was planning to march after graduation and enlisted instead. 

[Tim K]

On 11/20/2025 at 8:05 PM, Jeff Ream said:

without 20 year olds, you don't have members. thats why they say that. Now BITD drum corps alumni stuck around longer as fans. But with so many corps going in active, there's fewer corps to have alumni from, and then as members age out, real life calls and being a super fan isn't the option it used to be.

 

if DCI can find a way to get alumni from the last 10-15 years more engaged and keep them around, as we fade off, there's a nice mix.

I recall reading somewhere, probably on a thread on this site, that in general alums attend shows the first few years after aging out, then it drops off. I don’t recall the reasons but if you marched before the early 80’s, chances are you grew up in drum corps. Going to shows as adults and being involved as an alumni was due to it being an important part of your life.  Though most musicians today probably were in band in elementary, middle, and high school, chances are they only marched a few years in drum corps. They will probably not have the same ties to a corps as was the case back in the day. 

Two things DCI might consider to reconnect age outs is have social groups in Indy and perhaps at regionals where young people can gather. Maybe honoring anniversaries at shows like San Antonio, Atlanta, and Allentown might be of interest. At the 40th anniversary there was a huge reunion for anyone who marched. It was pretty successful. Parenthood also means people don’t have time. Try to have activities at shows that attract families. It could bring alums back and plant seeds for future marching members.

[Jeff Ream]

2 hours ago, Tim K said:

I recall reading somewhere, probably on a thread on this site, that in general alums attend shows the first few years after aging out, then it drops off. I don’t recall the reasons but if you marched before the early 80’s, chances are you grew up in drum corps. Going to shows as adults and being involved as an alumni was due to it being an important part of your life.  Though most musicians today probably were in band in elementary, middle, and high school, chances are they only marched a few years in drum corps. They will probably not have the same ties to a corps as was the case back in the day. 

Two things DCI might consider to reconnect age outs is have social groups in Indy and perhaps at regionals where young people can gather. Maybe honoring anniversaries at shows like San Antonio, Atlanta, and Allentown might be of interest. At the 40th anniversary there was a huge reunion for anyone who marched. It was pretty successful. Parenthood also means people don’t have time. Try to have activities at shows that attract families. It could bring alums back and plant seeds for future marching members.

Allentown is probably the heaviest alumni attended show