It’s only fair I come out from under my rock for Mandarins

[IllianaLancerContra]

44 minutes ago, OldCorpsGuy said:

So as we’ve watched the activity destroy itself, we still insist it’s all ok because the corps directors vote on all the policies. Yet at no point as we watch drum corps going down the drain we can’t say “these guys may know music but obviously have no idea how to run the activity as a whole”. That’s what’s been happening for decades. I guess when all the corps are gone, maybe folks will realize there’s a problem. Facepalm. 

The current DCI tour system requires a certain minimum number of Corps to participate or the whole thing collapses. IDK what that number is.  For 26 (so far) we have gained Spartans and lost Mandarins, so total on WC tour is the same. 

[wolfgang]

54 minutes ago, Slingerland said:

Corps directors don't really run the show at some of the voting corps. Staff members and designers do (see how the proposal to limit the amount of individual mics on horn players died a quick death - the CDs didn't even get a chance to vote on it because the designer/instructor room at Januals wouldn't pass it).  

Which is why staff and designers should have almost no say. What DCI needs is a Commissioner. Without DCI, what are the corps? The opposite qusstion could be asked also, but the G7 showed the top corps need a central organization.

One other point - if DCI ever goes full-broadway and ditches competition, they will be gone within 2 years. The "wow" factor is within the context of who is the better "wow."

[Jeff Ream]

1 hour ago, OldCorpsGuy said:

So as we’ve watched the activity destroy itself, we still insist it’s all ok because the corps directors vote on all the policies. Yet at no point as we watch drum corps going down the drain we can’t say “these guys may know music but obviously have no idea how to run the activity as a whole”. That’s what’s been happening for decades. I guess when all the corps are gone, maybe folks will realize there’s a problem. Facepalm. 

i never said it was ok. but i don't have a vote. the inmates run the asylum.

[Jeff Ream]

i have seen a post by JW as well as veiled comments here and on reddit that it wasn't solely financial. so then what was it?

[cixelsyd]

Your post touches on some key issues that deserve discussion.  For instance:

8 hours ago, Tim K said:

They were visionaries, but their vision was not 20/20. 

I agree, in both cases.

Quote

Competition was key and success was based on the improvement of their corps. 

Nothing controversial there.

Quote

I’m not sure they cared about other corps not because they were selfish as much as they were competitors and their attention was on their corps. 

This is where your remark about vision not being 20/20 resonates with me.  While they did try to create something of benefit to some number of corps, it is possible that they did not see how damaging the haves vs. have-nots nature of the system would be.

Quote

They also did not realize that as the top corps improved by leaps and bounds, the activity on the local level was dying. 

That is a popular misconception, but the timing does not quite line up.  I will return to this in more detail below.

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There are many reasons why corps began to fold in large numbers that had nothing to do with DCI such as changing times and interests, better school music programs, more activities for young people, and of course costs, but I don’t think DCI intended to help individual corps.

Here are several popular misconceptions bundled together.  

There are plenty of youth activities that have maintained themselves through changing times and increasing options.  Take baseball as one example with comparable longevity... it remains strong because it has not raised its costs a hundredfold like drum corps has.

School music programs and drum corps have helped each other over time.

The only valid cause I see in your list is costs.  And you nailed it there.  The early years of DCI (and frankly, a few of the preceding years too) saw a three-pronged explosion of costs gladly (and naively) undertaken during decent economic times.  There was an absolute spree of equipment additions, not just the G-F bugle but also the armada of heavy percussion instruments that would prove burdensome in more ways than just cost.  At the same time, the idea of touring achieved previously by one corps (Troopers) was extended to a wider population of corps on a perennial basis.  On top of that, the prototypical corps grew substantially in size in all sections over the same period.  Unfortunately, DCI retained the primary flaw of their predecessors - that the model for making it all logical and practical was still only offered to the highest-placing corps.  Win or die trying.

And that is precisely what transpired.  DCI improved the situation for the top corps (i.e. top 12) so much and so fast that by 1975, corps at that level could not only adopt all that previously described growth and expansion, but also achieve a level of stable perennial operation never seen before.  Things were looking great for a few years, but then in 1978-1983, the attrition rate for the have-nots (and even the "associate members" placing 13-25 at DCI) jumped sharply upward.  Full 20/20 vision should have accounted for the down cycles of an economy, for one thing... and perhaps more importantly, how cannibalistic these changes were.  Top corps, having by then left the local circuits and their release rules behind, too often filled their growing ranks with experienced marchers from those local corps you speak of.  The local corps persisted, but it gets harder to swim upstream with fewer members.  So some chose the "win or die trying" route, where several did win but most died trying.

[kdaddy]

58 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

i have seen a post by JW as well as veiled comments here and on reddit that it wasn't solely financial. so then what was it?

From JW Koester's facebook:

 

Hello my friends, Wow ! I am still in shock from the announcement that the Mandarins organization posted last night that the drum corps is going to take the 2026 season off. Yes, I played a part and provided some information for the board of directors in order for them to make their decision. Was it a decision made lightly ? Absolutely not. Was it only financially based ? Absolutely not. Any decision of this magnitude is Never based on one single point or issue. 

Right now I am feeling so much pain and sorrow for the amazing veteran members who were planning to come back, to the wonderful staff who returned and were ready to spend another year creating new memories together and, to the young people who were ready to join the 2026 Mandarins and make their memories. That is where my head is at right now. I also believe that the Mandarins organization will bring the drum corps back onto the competition field because that is a part of our organizational DNA. That is who we are, and I look forward to what the next Mandarins drum corps chapter brings. 

Mandarins members and staff - stay strong, stay positive, stay family wherever you are. Ciao, JW

[FormerXyloWhiz]

I have difficulty believing it's not "only financially based."  Largely because the only non-financial reasons not to field a corps for a season are so terrible, i'd really like for that to not be the case.  Hell, the Cadets still managed to field the same year the Philly paper ran the story.

[MikeN]

26 minutes ago, kdaddy said:

From JW Koester's facebook:

 

Hello my friends, Wow ! I am still in shock from the announcement that the Mandarins organization posted last night that the drum corps is going to take the 2026 season off. Yes, I played a part and provided some information for the board of directors in order for them to make their decision. Was it a decision made lightly ? Absolutely not. Was it only financially based ? Absolutely not. Any decision of this magnitude is Never based on one single point or issue. 

Right now I am feeling so much pain and sorrow for the amazing veteran members who were planning to come back, to the wonderful staff who returned and were ready to spend another year creating new memories together and, to the young people who were ready to join the 2026 Mandarins and make their memories. That is where my head is at right now. I also believe that the Mandarins organization will bring the drum corps back onto the competition field because that is a part of our organizational DNA. That is who we are, and I look forward to what the next Mandarins drum corps chapter brings. 

Mandarins members and staff - stay strong, stay positive, stay family wherever you are. Ciao, JW

The *director* is in shock?  What happened that he did not see coming?  Can't have been just the visual staff thing; it's October - there's time to replace them.

Mike

[Jeff Ream]

34 minutes ago, kdaddy said:

From JW Koester's facebook:

 

Hello my friends, Wow ! I am still in shock from the announcement that the Mandarins organization posted last night that the drum corps is going to take the 2026 season off. Yes, I played a part and provided some information for the board of directors in order for them to make their decision. Was it a decision made lightly ? Absolutely not. Was it only financially based ? Absolutely not. Any decision of this magnitude is Never based on one single point or issue. 

Right now I am feeling so much pain and sorrow for the amazing veteran members who were planning to come back, to the wonderful staff who returned and were ready to spend another year creating new memories together and, to the young people who were ready to join the 2026 Mandarins and make their memories. That is where my head is at right now. I also believe that the Mandarins organization will bring the drum corps back onto the competition field because that is a part of our organizational DNA. That is who we are, and I look forward to what the next Mandarins drum corps chapter brings. 

Mandarins members and staff - stay strong, stay positive, stay family wherever you are. Ciao, JW

so he says staff was coming back. others say they weren't. interesting. looking at the Pulse guys posts, they didn't seem to indicate they were leaving

Edited October 31, 2025 by Jeff Ream

[RiverCityAndTroopersFan]

3 hours ago, OldCorpsGuy said:

So I guess we just stand by while these guys destroy the activity for good? I’m not being snarky, I’m serious. What do we do? 

Here’s a radical idea, idk if it’s good, but it’s radical. We need to let the Open and All-Age corps vote. They are all members and all DCI. These corps tend to be restrained in their design, and the proposals I most agreed with at Januals came from Open Class corps.