It’s only fair I come out from under my rock for Mandarins

[OldCorpsGuy]

3 minutes ago, cixelsyd said:

No.

Paraphrasing, the first thing DCI ever said was that they were forming a private club.  The second thing they said was no, actually you can win your way into the club by coming to Whitewater and making the top 12 there.  Ever since, DCI has operated as a partial pyramid scheme, stringing corps along with an array of lures, chief among which is the prospect of full membership.

“Partial?” lol. Except it’s not funny….

[cixelsyd]

Just now, OldCorpsGuy said:

“Partial?” lol. Except it’s not funny….

Well, a typical pyramid scheme grants "membership" to all its victims.

[denverjohn]

1 hour ago, wolfgang said:

I recently asked about a NYC corps called St Rita's Brassmen who were not invited to be in the original 12 corps, but had they attended the first 2 DCI Championships in Whitewater, quite possibly would have made Finals. I believe they beat some Finalist corps in east coast shows. On the historical forum is interesting info.

In some ways, DCI was the G7 before there was a G7.

Boston Crusaders and Blue Rock were 2 other power houses that did not make jump to Whitewater in 1972 due to financial and other issues after huge success in the prior formats (VFW, AL, CYO, local circuits)

[Slingerland]

6 minutes ago, denverjohn said:

Boston Crusaders and Blue Rock were 2 other power houses that did not make jump to Whitewater in 1972 due to financial and other issues after huge success in the prior formats (VFW, AL, CYO, local circuits)

Six of the thirteen founding corps didn't make Finals in 1972 (and five non-founders did), so the founders were good to their word that you could "play in" to member status. Keeping in mind that a principle founding role for DCI was  making sure that corps received money from the recordings of nationals, you can say that it was a fairly equitable way of making sure the new members were taken care of, since it was their work that was being sold.

Given that almost all of the founding corps had managers who stressed about the expense of drum corps day and night, it's unlikely they would have passed rules changes that would play into income disparities the way that the current generation of corps leaders do. In fact, they slow-rolled changes in such a way to keep the additional new costs as modest as possible (two-valve horns were stepped into legality over a two year period). But now, it's "hey, we want to mic 24 members of the brass ensemble, and we can afford it, let's do it", and no thought is given to those who can't afford to do that and/or can't afford the additional support that requires from a tech standpoint.  

[Jeff Ream]

2 hours ago, RiverCityAndTroopersFan said:

Here’s a radical idea, idk if it’s good, but it’s radical. We need to let the Open and All-Age corps vote. They are all members and all DCI. These corps tend to be restrained in their design, and the proposals I most agreed with at Januals came from Open Class corps. 

and we know who needs to cede that voting power....

[Jeff Ream]

2 hours ago, kdaddy said:

What else could "Was it only financially based ? Absolutely not." realistically mean?

thats where transparency comes in

[OldCorpsGuy]

1 minute ago, Slingerland said:

Six of the thirteen founding corps didn't make Finals in 1972 (and five non-founders did), so the founders were good to their word that you could "play in" to member status. Keeping in mind that a principle founding role for DCI was  making sure that corps received money from the recordings of nationals, you can say that it was a fairly equitable way of making sure the new members were taken care of, since it was their work that was being sold.

Given that almost all of the founding corps had managers who stressed about the expense of drum corps day and night, it's unlikely they would have passed rules changes that would play into income disparities the way that the current generation of corps leaders do. In fact, they slow-rolled changes in such a way to keep the additional new costs as modest as possible (two-valve horns were stepped into legality over a two year period). But now, it's "hey, we want to mic 24 members of the brass ensemble, and we can afford it, let's do it", and no thought is given to those who can't afford to do that and/or can't afford the additional support that requires from a tech standpoint.  

And then make sure the corps who can’t afford it are judged harshly. That happened to my step sons corps when they were behind adding all that stuff because they couldn’t afford it at the time. Corps director asked why they were stagnating score wise. Had a judge tell him…”you won’t score well until you get with the program”. Director said they didn’t have the money for a sound system. Judge told him “ that’s your problem, not mine”. 

[wolfgang]

16 minutes ago, OldCorpsGuy said:

And then make sure the corps who can’t afford it are judged harshly. That happened to my step sons corps when they were behind adding all that stuff because they couldn’t afford it at the time. Corps director asked why they were stagnating score wise. Had a judge tell him…”you won’t score well until you get with the program”. Director said they didn’t have the money for a sound system. Judge told him “ that’s your problem, not mine”. 

So a judge dinged their acoustic sound in favor of artificially enhanced sound in which tricks like mic'ing certain players can be used, tricks which can fool the best judges.

Aside from money issues, a serious look at whats and whys of judging philosophy should be looked at. Not that it will be, but it should be.

Edited October 31, 2025 by wolfgang

[OldCorpsGuy]

20 minutes ago, wolfgang said:

So a judge dinged their acoustic sound in favor of artificially enhanced sound in which tricks like mic'ing certain players can be used, tricks which can fool the best judges.

Aside from money issues, a serious look at whats and whys of judging philosophy should be looked at. Not that it will be, but it should be.

Yeah. Good luck with that. lol. 

[Slingerland]

4 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

and we know who needs to cede that voting power....

If the non WC corps told DCI's voting membership, point blank, "give us votes in the room, or we're bagging on Indy", it would carry some weight. Bluntly, DCI needs all of those Open Class butts in the seats on Saturday night.

Edited October 31, 2025 by Slingerland