It’s only fair I come out from under my rock for Mandarins

[Slingerland]

20 hours ago, Sh0uldN0t said:

Boards of directors... What's the saying? Success has many fathers. Failure is a lonely orphan. Struggling boards know well the difference. Failure doesn't mean there wasn't diligence. Or good ideas. I know first-hand that some good ideas can't be implemented because the resources - financial, talent or even just volunteers - aren't there. I've been in the room. I've seen board work up close. Sometimes failure happens despite their best efforts.  

I have a couple of friends serving on Boards at both ends of the drum corps spectrum, and the mantra from their peers in the activity is that successful corps need outside funding mechanisms in order to offset the expenses of doing drum corps

That indicates an understanding that the activity has no hope of generating enough revenue directly related to the work at hand. The combination of earned (performance fees, touring fees for members, etc), and unearned (charitable contributions) still aren't enough to allow drum corps to operate in financially responsible manners.

If a business can't support themselves thru their primary purpose - if there aren't enough people who value the business enough to support it with their patronage - then that business is already done.

And that tells you everything you need to know about the future viability of the activity. 

Edited November 2, 2025 by Slingerland

[OldCorpsGuy]

27 minutes ago, Slingerland said:

I have a couple of friends serving on Boards at both ends of the drum corps spectrum, and the mantra from their peers in the activity is that successful corps need outside funding mechanisms in order to offset the expenses of doing drum corps

That indicates an understanding that the activity has no hope of generating enough revenue directly related to the work at hand. The combination of earned (performance fees, touring fees for members, etc), and unearned (charitable contributions) still aren't enough to allow drum corps to operate in financially responsible manners.

If a business (and charities are still businesses) can't support themselves thru their primary purpose - if there aren't enough people who value the business enough to support it with their patronage - then that business is already done.

And that tells you everything you need to know about the future viability of the activity. 

Sadly yes. 

[David Hill]

I agree, and disagree, with the there's-nothing-we-can-do mentality to the future viability of drum corps -- indeed all independent pageantry. The problem is: there are no quick fixes.

Even the new leadership at DCI sees, and is laying the foundation, for a full-throated fund raising program that has nothing to do with the business of "the business." Fund raising is intended to tap into potential donors' good feelings towards that work. And to turn those feelings into actionable support for the organization, both short and long term.

Full disclosure: I was a fund raising guy for thirty of my 40-year career. I have also attempted to help a variety of pageantry organizations both see, and understand, the value of full-throated, and staffed, efforts.

I saw two things when I did: If the efforts couldn't help immediately, they were generally not interested. Plus, most of the organizations -- huge and individual -- had no vision for the future of their efforts beyond "making it through the year."

There are plenty pf exceptions, but when leadership says they don't want to ask for money, that is precisely what they are going to get.

No number of indirect fund raisers -- sales, auctions, etc. -- will ever replace building relationships around the shared love of the organization.

Edited November 2, 2025 by David Hill
Added a final rejoinder.

[jwillis35]

On 11/1/2025 at 6:18 PM, Sh0uldN0t said:

But that's history. And the question today is: What will DCI be going forward? The only part of the answer that I know is DCI won't be the same because it never is. One reason why is the people who populate and support it never stay the same.

Agree. 

I certainly don't have the answers but I would propose the following: 

• Go back to a max 138 membership on the field. Max 3 charters for the corps. You can have a max 4 alternates on the road. If you have injuries then you use the alternates or you find someone to come in who is not marching. Or you march the holes. 
• More regional touring early in the season. Add one more major regional to make it 4 total. Add Drums Along The Rockies to DCI Southwest, DCI Southeast, and DCI East. Make it so the WC corps only have to compete in 2 of the 4 regionals, and maybe they are only allowed to compete in 2 of the 4 regionals. This way Western corps can attend San Antonio and Denver, and Eastern and Southern corps can do Atlanta and Allentown. Some of the Midwest corps could split this, doing San Antonio and Atlanta, or Denver and Allentown. This could also make DCI Finals more interesting when top seeds from the Western shows meet top seeds from the East. 
• Seek more investment for locally-run shows. It's ok if not every show is a 7 to 10 corps lineup. Sometimes fans just want to attend something 2 hours long and move on with their evening. Not every show has to be 4+ hours. Yes, crowds may be smaller but the cost would be less...and frankly a little effort in marketing the local show can help. Look to bring in more local H.S. and M.S. band kids. Seek out  collegiate OCMEA kids to help run the show. They get credit for this. 
• Drum & Bugle Corps need to do more exhibitions in small communities as part of their camps that many run during the summer. Bluecoats do their Blueway camps. Continue with something like that, but have a short exhibition show for the local community or metro area that evening. These would obviously be on non-competing days. Spread the good news about the activity. Showcase the kids that took part, much like they do at the Muncie, Indiana show...though it does not have to be a full competition or anything that grand. 
• Finally, DCI needs to break away from the top 12 BOD member corps to effectively represent all corps in all classes. The tail is wagging the dog and some of the Executive Directors are at the mercy of their design teams who want all these changes and expenses. DCI needs to be its own corporation and have final say in rules and policies that benefit all corps. I have NO CLUE how this could be done, and I am not saying that certain corps can't have nice things if they can afford it, but it would be nice to have a governing body that lays down the ground work, the rules, and the competition standards that best present all drum corps. We have been pandering to the few and not the entire activity. If a few corps at the top want to leave or start their own circuit...let 'em. I am sure those 5 to 7 corps will appreciate doing all the work for tour, booking shows, dealing with contracts, paying judges, and traveling all over the freakin' globe to just be at one show together. That G7 bull crap is not going to fly anymore. I Guarantee that if the 8-12, 13-20, Open Class and All-Age class corps feel staying with DCI will get them a fair shake and rules that makes sense they will stay. 

But as I like to say...what the heck do I know. I'm sure I am off base, but I do think the current norms of the activity are not going to work for much longer, at least not for most corps. 

[OldCorpsGuy]

So given what we know about the BODs of the Cadets and Madison and then you see stories like this with the Mandarins….why have BODs if they’re not doing their jobs? 

[Slingerland]

I'd argue that choosing not to go further in debt (for the Mandarins) and electing to shutter rather than risk the member tour fees of the kids to a lawsuit from long ago were both prudent decisions. 
 

The activity doesn't have the type of widespread charitable support from the alums and the communities of the corps to label it as a healthy pursuit. It's a niche activity with a nonsensical set of rules and controls, and, hate to say it, but if it went away tomorrow, no one outside of this niche community would miss it. High School bands would continue on.

 

Edited November 3, 2025 by Slingerland

[Jurassic Lancer]

1 hour ago, OldCorpsGuy said:

So given what we know about the BODs of the Cadets and Madison and then you see stories like this with the Mandarins….why have BODs if they’re not doing their jobs? 

Yup … those Mandarins BOD members who put in $250,000 of their own money to make sure the members were safe are total a-holes. 

[OldCorpsGuy]

9 minutes ago, Jurassic Lancer said:

Yup … those Mandarins BOD members who put in $250,000 of their own money to make sure the members were safe are total a-holes. 

They also let it get to that point…which should never have happened.  

[Jurassic Lancer]

2 hours ago, OldCorpsGuy said:

They also let it get to that point…which should never have happened.  

And they pulled the plug on an untenable season … that was their job.

Do you even remember the days when corps directors like Bob Duggan (Oakland Crusaders) or George Bonfiglio (27th Lancers) would mortgage their homes to keep their corps on the road? They sacrificed their retirements for this activity. I have nothing but respect for Mandy’s BOD to do everything they could to keep the corps moving and bring them home safely. They killed the 2026 season before prospective members committed. Give them a ####### break already. They put up before they shut up. It sucks but don’t blame the ones who gave their life’s blood for the corps.

Oh! Why not give them an extra hard kick while they’re down. 

Edited November 3, 2025 by Jurassic Lancer

[Terri Schehr]

16 hours ago, David Hill said:

I agree, and disagree, with the there's-nothing-we-can-do mentality to the future viability of drum corps -- indeed all independent pageantry. The problem is: there are no quick fixes.

Even the new leadership at DCI sees, and is laying the foundation, for a full-throated fund raising program that has nothing to do with the business of "the business." Fund raising is intended to tap into potential donors' good feelings towards that work. And to turn those feelings into actionable support for the organization, both short and long term.

Full disclosure: I was a fund raising guy for thirty of my 40-year career. I have also attempted to help a variety of pageantry organizations both see, and understand, the value of full-throated, and staffed, efforts.

I saw two things when I did: If the efforts couldn't help immediately, they were generally not interested. Plus, most of the organizations -- huge and individual -- had no vision for the future of their efforts beyond "making it through the year."

There are plenty pf exceptions, but when leadership says they don't want to ask for money, that is precisely what they are going to get.

No number of indirect fund raisers -- sales, auctions, etc. -- will ever replace building relationships around the shared love of the organization.

Ah well…. that’s what that whole “I Marched” thing was all about that I signed up for and never heard another word about. Jim did not because he said it was just data mining to ask for money. 

Edited November 3, 2025 by Terri Schehr