It’s only fair I come out from under my rock for Mandarins

[Old Corps Guy]

Like Major League Baseball, DCI needs a "CAP" on spending. Those with money (see LA Dodgers), will keep outspending those that don't have money (see Pittsburgh Pirates). When a corps doesn't have the revenue stream to keep up, they will fail.  If they try to spend like those that have money, they will end up in a situation like Mandarins.  

Admitted Die-Hard Milwaukee Brewers fan.

Edited November 3, 2025 by Old Corps Guy

[Jeff Ream]

23 hours ago, Slingerland said:

I have a couple of friends serving on Boards at both ends of the drum corps spectrum, and the mantra from their peers in the activity is that successful corps need outside funding mechanisms in order to offset the expenses of doing drum corps

That indicates an understanding that the activity has no hope of generating enough revenue directly related to the work at hand. The combination of earned (performance fees, touring fees for members, etc), and unearned (charitable contributions) still aren't enough to allow drum corps to operate in financially responsible manners.

If a business can't support themselves thru their primary purpose - if there aren't enough people who value the business enough to support it with their patronage - then that business is already done.

And that tells you everything you need to know about the future viability of the activity. 

serious question...did performance fees alone ever cover the cost of drum corps? BITD it was prize money....you didn't place high enough did you get anything for showing up? No. you fundraised even in the "glory days"> but costs today...fuel, housing.....you can't 50/50 and dinner dance your way to cover those costs now, especially when you add in food and insurance.

[Terri Schehr]

2 hours ago, Old Corps Guy said:

Like Major League Baseball, DCI needs a "CAP" on spending. Those with money (see LA Dodgers), will keep outspending those that don't have money (see Pittsburgh Pirates). When a corps doesn't have the revenue stream to keep up, they will fail.  If they try to spend like those that have money, they will end up in a situation like Mandarins.  

Admitted Die-Hard Milwaukee Brewers fan.

Poppy suggested a spending gap and bulk purchasing and the torches and pitchforks came out.

 

[LabMaster]

18 minutes ago, OldCorpsGuy said:

No need to be a dick.
 

Just pointing out that folks should not have to do that and honestly should not have done that to keep an organization going. I love both the corps I marched in, but at the same time, would not have gone hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt to help them out. It points to the bigger problem of DCI’s approach and how national touring is/has destroyed the activity. 
But keep name calling if that makes you feel better. 

Please clarify for us if you will;  who in your mind is DCI?  You claim DCI has destroyed the activity, but who are you specifically referring to as the culprit?  Do you mean DCI the organization who coordinates the activities of the member corps, by setting up shows, housing, marketing, etc., etc.  Or do you mean the member corps who vote on rule changes they’ve requested?  Or instrumentation they’ve requested? Or adjudication they have developed? Or membership numbers they have increased? Or the spending required to support the rule changes, membership, tours, instrumentation, amplification, judging sheets; all of it.  The corps chose all of it.  Not DCI the org,  sitting in Indy.

What DCI the org could do, is require more oversight on their part, with regard to corps financial health status.  It seems that there is diligence in DCI reviewing a corps financial stability and ability as they join DCI and move through the classes.  But once a corps is established, there seem to be no further financial reviews.  What has happened at Mandarins, didn’t happen just this past season.  It should have been seen earlier. What has been bringing corps down has been financial mismanagement. Time and time again. But no one wants to say things like NO you can’t pay that, buy that or do that.  I say this “generally” as each corps financial solvency is known more to them than most posters on DCP. I see kudos being given to Mandarins BOD for pulling the plug on 2026, but why didn’t they see this coming?  Perhaps because they saw a competitive opportunity and chose to chase after it.  And now, quite possibly, the legacy may be the last Mandarin corps we will have ever seen.

But this is all my opinion.  Food for thought, along with requested clarity about the difference between DCI the org and DCI corps members.  
 

[mingusmonk]

3 hours ago, Old Corps Guy said:

Like Major League Baseball, DCI needs a "CAP" on spending. Those with money (see LA Dodgers), will keep outspending those that don't have money (see Pittsburgh Pirates). When a corps doesn't have the revenue stream to keep up, they will fail.  If they try to spend like those that have money, they will end up in a situation like Mandarins.  

Admitted Die-Hard Milwaukee Brewers fan.

I wouldn't make this comparison. For a lot of reasons. But mostly because MLB doesn't need a salary cap. If anything, they need a salary floor. Tampa Bay Rays were sold this year for $1.7 Billion! Their entire player salary this year? $88 Million. LOL 

 

[Old Corps Guy]

1 hour ago, mingusmonk said:

I wouldn't make this comparison. For a lot of reasons. But mostly because MLB doesn't need a salary cap. If anything, they need a salary floor. Tampa Bay Rays were sold this year for $1.7 Billion! Their entire player salary this year? $88 Million. LOL 

 

I suspect you are a fan of a team that has the revenue resources to spend.  I'm sorry, a market with a population base of less than a million doesn't have the revenue sources of a market with multiple millions in population base.  Markets like Green Bay and Buffalo can be competitive in the NFL every year because the NY and LA teams can't spend any more than Green Bay and Buffalo.  This is not the case in baseball.

The same applies to DCI.  BD, SCV, Bluecoats have revenue sources that allow them to spend far more than Crossmen, Music City, etc. When they try to spend like the top corps, they end up like Mandarins in 2026.

Edited November 3, 2025 by Old Corps Guy

[Tim K]

4 hours ago, Old Corps Guy said:

Like Major League Baseball, DCI needs a "CAP" on spending. Those with money (see LA Dodgers), will keep outspending those that don't have money (see Pittsburgh Pirates). When a corps doesn't have the revenue stream to keep up, they will fail.  If they try to spend like those that have money, they will end up in a situation like Mandarins.  

Admitted Die-Hard Milwaukee Brewers fan.

I agree the costs are getting too high and I’ve heard of spending that can seem extravagant. There are also corps, some at the top, that are pretty frugal. While a CAP is not a bad idea, I wonder if the bigger question is how are the funds raised and managed. Also how do we get around gifts. I can think of two corps who had an over the top expense on something many believed was unnecessary. Donors went bonkers. In both cases the corps made sure donors knew it was gifted to the corps and donor funds were not used. Would this fall under the cap? If not, I could imagine corps will still spend as much, but have it donated as an in kind gift.

[Lance]

5 hours ago, Old Corps Guy said:

Like Major League Baseball, DCI needs a "CAP" on spending. Those with money (see LA Dodgers), will keep outspending those that don't have money (see Pittsburgh Pirates). When a corps doesn't have the revenue stream to keep up, they will fail.  If they try to spend like those that have money, they will end up in a situation like Mandarins.  

Admitted Die-Hard Milwaukee Brewers fan.

Analogies to MLB and other pro sports break down for myriad reasons compared to DCI. 

MLB teams can go over the salary cap, they just have to pay a luxury tax on it.  The Dodgers generated $1 Billion in revenue this year according reports I've read, and they have no problem just paying the extra tax to significantly go over the cap every year.  Same with the Yanks pretty much every year.  There were 3 other teams that went over the salary cap this season.  Some years it's more and some years it's less.  

The extra tax they pay is split between money that goes directly to individual players' retirement accounts (no analogy to DCI to be had here) and the rest goes to a revenue sharing pool for clubs that generate less revenue.  I wonder what that would look like for DCI or a similar model would even be legal for DCI.  These are all negotiated by unions (again, no analogy to DCI to be had).  It would also be fun to see DCI try to set up oversight for proper use of shared revenue from a pool like MLB has.  If they can't even oversee member safety in a meaningful way, I wouldn't trust them with shared revenue oversight.    

 

[jthomas666]

7 hours ago, Old Corps Guy said:

The same applies to DCI.  BD, SCV, Bluecoats have revenue sources that allow them to spend far more than Crossmen, Music City, etc. When they try to spend like the top corps, they end up like Mandarins in 2026.

And it's a natural consequence of several things:

Electronics--you have not just the cost of the electronics, but the additional insurance, techs, etc. 

Increase of membership to 150.  I know people say that it was done to maximize bus usage.  Perhaps it was. But if member fees alone aren't enough, and you increase the number of members, you're just digging a deeper hole.

And, of course, props.  Some work, some don't, but they all cost.  I still don't know what those giant things Crown had on the field were.  Or, for that matter, the yellow luggage carts PR used in 2018. At least the Troopers had the smarts to use their sunburst prop for multiple shows. 

There are a lot of costs corps can't control--gas, house, and food are the obvious ones.  But the things that can be controlled should be controlled, and if the goal of DCI is to protect the activity, then here's a perfect place for them to take action.

 

[greg_orangecounty]

11 hours ago, Old Corps Guy said:

Like Major League Baseball, DCI needs a "CAP" on spending. Those with money (see LA Dodgers), will keep outspending those that don't have money (see Pittsburgh Pirates). When a corps doesn't have the revenue stream to keep up, they will fail.  If they try to spend like those that have money, they will end up in a situation like Mandarins.  

Admitted Die-Hard Milwaukee Brewers fan.

Cap spending on what?  Food, housing, medical, fuel, insurance?  Those are by far the biggest budget line items.  Frankly, I wouldn't mind abolishing amplification, props, and pits the size of small towns, but that wouldn't solve the core issue.

In terms of the Dodgers (admitted L.A. native).....explain the Dallas Cowboys if money buys championships (or even NFC championship game appearances).