It’s only fair I come out from under my rock for Mandarins

[LabMaster]

7 hours ago, Old Corps Guy said:

I suspect you are a fan of a team that has the revenue resources to spend.  I'm sorry, a market with a population base of less than a million doesn't have the revenue sources of a market with multiple millions in population base.  Markets like Green Bay and Buffalo can be competitive in the NFL every year because the NY and LA teams can't spend any more than Green Bay and Buffalo.  This is not the case in baseball.

The same applies to DCI.  BD, SCV, Bluecoats have revenue sources that allow them to spend far more than Crossmen, Music City, etc. When they try to spend like the top corps, they end up like Mandarins in 2026.

The issue with a cap is that more corps need to generate revenue than corps need to be capped.  The initial problem for corps is revenue, sustainable revenue, followed by good financial management.  A large dash of common sense thrown in too doesn’t hurt. 

Some corps have built their orgs over a number of years and have developed and evolved revenue generating operations over time, to accommodate needs.  What they see as inflationary and competitive needs.  Their focus is their orgs., no one else's.  They also have excellent fiscal mgmt.  This may be because they feel every org can do the same. Some have. But it takes time.  A long time.  It is a slow process.  While the financial piece is being built, excellent, diligent and legal financial mgmt. is required.  Oversight by a BOD is necessary.  State laws allow some corps an advantage others don’t get. Bingo as an example.

What it comes down to in a simplistic form is corps need revenue. But there is no common revenue stream short of busting your butt for corporate donations, grants, supporter donations.

Next is proper financial management.  Having a BOD with appropriate expertise in non peofit management and money management.  With knowledge of compliance with all legal requirements.

If money is the problem; fix the money problem at each corps level.  Don't dump it or blame it on DCI the org.   Fix it at corps level.  DCI the org should be looking at a corps financial health and report on it. Constantly/annually; ALL corps.  Not only when a corps moves up a class or joins DCI,

just my $.02.

[Slingerland]

If your business needs a completely unrelated business to generate profits in order to have enough funds to fulfill YOUR CORE MISSION as a business, your business is   ___ed. 

The NY Phil doesn't also own a chain of carwashes in order to stay in business. I'm unaware if the CSO also owns a chain of chicken restaurants to pay the bills at Symphony Center. 

Most youth dance companies, music orgs, etc, etc, don't have to hear "oh, you need to generate hundreds of thousands of dollars in outside non-mission related income in order to stay in business", because in Reality-Land, if your non-profit doesn't generate enough support to keep going by dint of the services you provide to your community, you go belly up and someone else who does a better job of providing those services will take your place.

Drum corps sucks at providing the type of community-witnessed value that could ever generate major local support, because most corps have no visible presence in their own communities and the number of local kids performing in most corps is in the single digits, as a percentage of membership. Much of this goes back to DCI's founding era and the idea of everyone getting on the road and showcasing the best of the best across the country, but in doing so, the activity lost its local roots, and this is all just the hogs coming home to roost.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2025 by Slingerland

[Old Guy]

11 minutes ago, Slingerland said:

If your business needs a completely unrelated business to generate profits in order to have enough funds to fulfill YOUR CORE MISSION as a business, your business is   ___ed. 

The NY Phil doesn't also own a chain of carwashes in order to stay in business. I live in Chicago, and I'm unaware if the CSO also owns a chain of chicken restaurants to pay the bills at Symphony Center. 

Most youth dance companies, music orgs, etc, etc, don't have to hear "oh, you need to generate hundreds of thousands of dollars in outside non-mission related income in order to stay in business", because in Reality-Land, if your non-profit doesn't generate enough support to keep going by dint of the services you provide to your community, you go belly up and someone else who does a better job of providing those services will take your place.

Drum corps sucks at performing the type of community-witnessed value that could ever generate major local support, because most corps have no visible presence in their own communities. Much of this goes back to DCI's founding era and the idea of everyone getting on the road and showcasing the best of the best across the country, but in doing so, the activity lost its local roots, and this is all just the hogs coming home to roost.

 

 

 

 

I remember my days in community corps. We had dozen of them around. 
 

Us, we could’t survive with just parades and tuition. That was way back 40 years ago. 
 

We were not touring. No uniform change. Also not paying for storage and rehearsal space. 
 

To go from nothing to tshirt, than to uniforms, we needed more than tuition. 
 

Corps around us, many did survive with tuition only… for 1-2-5-8 years. They did not however offer great food, great rehearsal space, great instruments. Many time not even great instruction. But they would survive for a few years before shotting down. 
 

I see drum corps as a charity org. If you want to feed the poor or house them for free, you can’t make it without outside help. 
 

Some rely on government aid, donation, community support… drum corps are slowly building outside source of revenus. 
 

I think it’s smart and necessary. 
 

I have been asking and waiting for external help (gov, cie, alumni). It’s not coming fast enough. I feel we are in a race with time. We can’t wait until it’s too late. 
 

Many will be crunch… because they are thinking about 2026 when they should be thinking about 2046. 
 

You are right about the sustainability of drum corps. From there we need to find solutions. To me it’s easier to own a McDonald than anything else I can think of.

It’s crazy… but easier in my eyes!  
 

 

[Jurassic Lancer]

14 hours ago, OldCorpsGuy said:

No need to be a dick.
 

Just pointing out that folks should not have to do that and honestly should not have done that to keep an organization going. I love both the corps I marched in, but at the same time, would not have gone hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt to help them out. It points to the bigger problem of DCI’s approach and how national touring is/has destroyed the activity. 
But keep name calling if that makes you feel better. 

Aaaaaaaaaand … I’m out

See you all later … maybe in June

[Old Corps Guy]

14 hours ago, greg_orangecounty said:

Cap spending on what?  Food, housing, medical, fuel, insurance?  Those are by far the biggest budget line items.  Frankly, I wouldn't mind abolishing amplification, props, and pits the size of small towns, but that wouldn't solve the core issue.

In terms of the Dodgers (admitted L.A. native).....explain the Dallas Cowboys if money buys championships (or even NFC championship game appearances).  

First of all, the Cowboys suck!

Now that I got that off my chest, they may generate a ton of revenue. However, they still can't spend more than the Packers or Bills. Simple math.  All NFL teams can only spend up to the salary cap each year.  Cowboys chose to give most of the the money to Dak and look where that has gotten them.  How 'bout dem Cowboys?

As for DCI; BD, SCV, Bluecoats spend a lot of money on items far beyond the essentials.  Better staff, props, electronics, etc.  Look what BAC did over the past several years.  They paid $$$$ for great staff.  Then they spent on props (TV Screens 2022), electronics, etc.  They got a championship after spending $$$$.  Mandarins tried to keep up and now they aren't even fielding a corps in 2026.

Edited November 4, 2025 by Old Corps Guy

[cixelsyd]

22 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

serious question...did performance fees alone ever cover the cost of drum corps? 

No.  

Serious question... did you think the post you were responding to ever suggested that?  It called out "earned (performance fees, touring fees for members, etc), and unearned (charitable contributions)".  In other words, the "earned" category is all the program revenue that the drum corps business generates, and the "unearned" is all the charity that drum corps can attract either through simple donations or fundraising campaigns.

[OldCorpsGuy]

8 hours ago, Jurassic Lancer said:

Aaaaaaaaaand … I’m out

See you all later … maybe 

Edited November 4, 2025 by OldCorpsGuy
Delete post

[denverjohn]

15 hours ago, Slingerland said:

CSO also owns a chain of chicken restaurants

DCI co-sponsored by Pollos Hermanos.

Edited November 4, 2025 by denverjohn

[OldCorpsGuy]

9 hours ago, Jurassic Lancer said:

Aaaaaaaaaand … I’m out

See you all later … maybe in June

I’m failing to see how my post hurt you…but whatever. 

[flugelswerebugels]

All these posts about "a business lives on its revenue" forget that drum corps is non-profit. So no, it won't live on ticket sales alone. It needs the support of a community.