Tim Snyder Threatens Over Fair Use

[TheOneWhoKnows]

58 minutes ago, cixelsyd said:

Two problems with that:

1.  Again... when there are other rights holders upstream, the video producer only has whatever copyrights they have already negotiated and paid for.  For example, if they only have license to broadcast live, they cannot legally provide on-demand video or downloads (much less authorize third parties to do so).  Obtaining those additional rights would be a separate negotiation and a separate price... and if someone upstream says "no", forget it.

2.  If you do not defend your copyright, you can lose it.  And if you have other rights holders upstream, you may face lawsuits from them on top of that.

Well aware of this, but in a niche activity that needs as much exposure and participation as possible, working together is better than being a jagoff. 

[dcifan1999]

31 minutes ago, TheOneWhoKnows said:

Well aware of this, but in a niche activity that needs as much exposure and participation as possible, working together is better than being a jagoff. 

Wait…are you suggesting TS is a jagoff? That would be shocking. 

[greg_orangecounty]

At least wait for a cease and desist before consider stopping.  Don't give up that easily. 

[BK4Ever]

With Flo and all the complaints it gets $29.99 would at least get me a month's worth of shows including all of finals week. Box5 is more PPV and charging $32.99 just to watch Grand Nationals finals. It's obscene. Flo stream rips get uploaded to YouTube all the time and as far as I've heard, nobody has had the CEO of Flo threatening million-dollar lawsuits against them. The ego over high school band is ridiculous. 

 

https://box5tv.com/product-category/bands-of-america/

[Lance]

7 minutes ago, BK4Ever said:

With Flo and all the complaints it gets $29.99 would at least get me a month's worth of shows including all of finals week. Box5 is more PPV and charging $32.99 just to watch Grand Nationals finals. It's obscene. Flo stream rips get uploaded to YouTube all the time and as far as I've heard, nobody has had the CEO of Flo threatening million-dollar lawsuits against them. The ego over high school band is ridiculous. 

 

https://box5tv.com/product-category/bands-of-america/

I agree about the price.  I would never pay $30 for streaming a single marching arts event, and I would never pay a cent for anything high school related.  

But youtube takes down bootlegged/ripped videos of marching arts shows constantly, and that only happens when owners/publishers of of an IP file a copyright complaint with youtube.  So yes, Flo.  If YT didn't take down the vids at the onwer's/publishers request, then they would indeed set themselves up for big $$$$ lawsuits.    

Two separate issues.  

[arabica]

2 hours ago, BK4Ever said:

With Flo and all the complaints it gets $29.99 would at least get me a month's worth of shows including all of finals week. Box5 is more PPV and charging $32.99 just to watch Grand Nationals finals. It's obscene. Flo stream rips get uploaded to YouTube all the time and as far as I've heard, nobody has had the CEO of Flo threatening million-dollar lawsuits against them. The ego over high school band is ridiculous. 

 

https://box5tv.com/product-category/bands-of-america/

Obscene, yes, but back when I marched in BOA in the early 00s, it was roughly the same amount just to purchase a videotape of your own band's performance, let alone the full finals. Irrespective of the CEO, who indeed sounds like a Class A jerk, access to audio/visual for bands and corps has always been a disaster. I miss the days of DCI Fan Network, and the free streaming of some shows in the years preceding it. 😩

[Slingerland]

Running some 15 or 20 second clips - stopping it, and commenting on what about the clip made it emblematic of a point being made by the commenter would be covered by Fair Use.

 

If the channel was running large chunks of the show, or perhaps the whole thing, even if commentary runs over the material, that would not be covered by Fair Use protection. You can't post a copyrighted commercial film online and present it with a few comments voiced-over and call it Fair Use. I mean, yeah, you COULD, but it wouldn't go very far.
 
 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2025 by Slingerland

[combia1]

6 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

If anyone understands "fair use", it would be the U.S Copyright Office.  As posted on copyright.gov, they say:

"Under the fair use doctrine of the U.S. copyright statute, it is permissible to use limited portions of a work including quotes, for purposes such as commentary, criticism, news reporting, and scholarly reports."

Reposting the entire show of an ensemble is not a "limited portion"... therefore, that is not "fair use".

Of course, the alternative to "fair use" would be to get permission from the copyright holder for what you want to do.  With marching arts, that is very complicated due to the fact that there are multiple levels of rights involved (i.e. the original music, derivative works, public performance, recording/broadcast all have separate rights).  In any case, if you try to contact whom you believe to be the copyright holder and get no response, that does not give you the right of "fair use" either.

Not surprising.  What is surprising is that there is anyone left who is either stupid enough or obstinate enough to provide video services to the marching arts, when their participant/customer base engages in piracy so rampant and memeworthy that we can all access a library of such material via searching "cake recipes", "bike trails", or just the name of the ensemble with a "not" prefix.

(Oh, and if the video provider is a ########, that still does not make it "fair use".)

Go over to YouTube and search for KPop Demon Hunters reaction videos. Thousands upon thousands of them with millions of views. If Netflix and Sony Animation can't take them down, then Tim Snyder's threats are hollow. Unless of course he has access to better lawyers and more money to pay said lawyers then Netflix and Sony?

I've successfully worked with a school district to fight Tresona's BS, so I do have some experience with copyright trolls. We specifically claimed Fair Use and Tresona caved the moment we pushed back. Tim's claims and threats are no different.

[Barneveld]

1 hour ago, combia1 said:

Go over to YouTube and search for KPop Demon Hunters reaction videos. Thousands upon thousands of them with millions of views. If Netflix and Sony Animation can't take them down, then Tim Snyder's threats are hollow. Unless of course he has access to better lawyers and more money to pay said lawyers then Netflix and Sony?

I've successfully worked with a school district to fight Tresona's BS, so I do have some experience with copyright trolls. We specifically claimed Fair Use and Tresona caved the moment we pushed back. Tim's claims and threats are no different.

Maybe DCI should hire you/your firm. 

[Slingerland]

1 hour ago, combia1 said:

Go over to YouTube and search for KPop Demon Hunters reaction videos. Thousands upon thousands of them with millions of views. If Netflix and Sony Animation can't take them down....

Netflix owns both the IP and the actual film in question. It could be a business decision on their part to allow fan vids to stay up as a way to increase the value of the franchise via very cheap publicity (which I would say is a good business decision, since THEY are the beneficiaries). After all, Netflix' business model is to increase the number of eyeballs on their product.

But if part of the online content includes material owned by other artists or companies who licensed their work for the marching band with fairly tight restrictions regarding how it can be used, then the situation is not really analogous. Simply put, no one has a right to take someone else's property and use it however they want without prior permission.

Edited November 26, 2025 by Slingerland