DO the current mm's in DCI worry about it's possible demise as much as veterans do?

[wolfgang]

11 minutes ago, olddrummer34 said:

 

Respectfully, the “blind men and the elephant” analogy cuts both ways, and you are using it to selectively frame decline while discounting equally real indicators of growth.

Yes, elite corps continue to post record audition numbers. That isn’t a trivial data point; it reflects unprecedented interest, participation demand, and perceived value among students nationwide. At the same time, digital viewership, social media reach, and national exposure are orders of magnitude larger than at any point in the activity’s history. That matters, because awareness and access drive long-term sustainability, not just local ticket scans at a suburban high school show that is less than 2 hours from 5 other shows. 

Local attendance has always fluctuated based on geography, marketing, weather, and timing, this is not a new phenomenon, nor is it unique to the current era. Meanwhile, the reality is that ticket revenue, streaming revenue, and sponsorship models have diversified far beyond what existed even ten years ago.

 

As for the reduction in total corps, that metric deserves context. . What has changed is where participation and audiences now live. In many regions, the rise of high-quality, well-funded high school band programs has effectively replaced the role that local drum corps once served. This is a pipeline to modern DCI groups. 

This isn’t evidence of collapse, it’s evidence of structural replacement. The educational, financial, and production standards in today’s high school programs rival what many local corps once provided. At the same time, the broader activity now demands vastly more infrastructure, staffing, medical care, compliance, and educational rigor than it did decades ago. Survival under higher standards and a shifting pipeline is not the same as decline, it’s evolution.

You’re right about one thing: perspective matters. But perspective must include all the data, not just the belly or the tail. Right now, the evidence doesn’t suggest a dying elephant. It suggests an activity that is restructuring under modern economic, educational, and media realities. That process is uncomfortable, but historically, it has also been how this activity evolves and survives, not how it ends.

 

Great. I can't wait to watch Mandarins at the Centerville show this summer.

[cixelsyd]

4 hours ago, craiga said:

I continue to be optimistic about the future of drum corps, mostly because I do have 55+ years of experience in the activity as a fan, member, staffer, volunteer, and still a fan today.

Great!  About time we had an optimist to welcome to the discussion.

Quote

The bottom line is that drum corps has become very expensive, just like cars and homes and college tuition.

Well, no - not just like all those other things.  Drum corps has become 4 to 7 times more expensive in inflation-corrected terms, and purposely so due to changes made by those in charge.

But that is only half of the bottom line.  The other half - revenue - has not grown to support these changes.  

[olddrummer34]

26 minutes ago, wolfgang said:

Great. I can't wait to watch Mandarins at the Centerville show this summer.

Thanks for putting so much thought into your reply. Good luck being negative about everything. 

[olddrummer34]

10 minutes ago, cixelsyd said:

Great!  About time we had an optimist to welcome to the discussion.

Well, no - not just like all those other things.  Drum corps has become 4 to 7 times more expensive in inflation-corrected terms, and purposely so due to changes made by those in charge.

But that is only half of the bottom line.  The other half - revenue - has not grown to support these changes.  

I appreciate the optimism jab, but I don’t think acknowledging progress is the same as ignoring reality. You’re absolutely right that the cost of operating a drum corps has risen dramatically in inflation-adjusted terms, but it’s also important to be clear about why those costs rose and what they now include.

Modern drum corps now operate with standards that mirror other youth sports organizations: licensed medical professionals and athletic trainers on the road, mandated health protocols, significantly higher food and nutrition standards, improved housing requirements, mental and physical wellness resources, and strict heat/wet-bulb rehearsal guidelines. None of that is free, but all of it represents a deliberate move toward safer, more responsible youth programming. Those changes didn’t happen “for no reason”; they happened because the old model was no longer ethically or legally defensible.

DCI didn’t just “get more expensive.” It leveled up as an organization.

You’re also correct that revenue hasn’t scaled at the same rate, and that is the real structural problem worth discussing. But framing the expense growth as reckless ignores that much of it reflects modern risk management, liability protection, and baseline care that other youth activities normalized decades ago. Rolling those standards back isn’t a realistic or responsible solution.

So yes, costs went up. But so did safety, accountability, and professionalism. The hard conversation now is how to align sustainable revenue with those realities, not how to pretend we can go backwards. 

[dcifanforlife]

2 hours ago, wolfgang said:

Please don't take this as a personal criticism as it's not intended that way. The quoted comment highlights the importance of perspective.

There is an old adage about 3 blind men and an elephant. One feels the trunk, the other the massive belly, and the third the tiny tail. Each one has an idea of what an elephant is... from his individual perspective.

What you said isn't wrong per se, but widen out to look at the whole elephant. The top World Class corps have record audition turnout? Great. What about the bottom half of World Class and Open Class? How is Mandarins turnout this fall?

The shows you attended are sold out? Wonderful. How full will Centerville's stadium be this summer?

If Bluecoats get 1,000 at auditions or XYZ show sells out a 5,000 seat concert-side stadium, that is good. My perspective is to look overall (2025 combined OC and WC corps @ Championships:  34, so far in 2026:  31). Fewer shows = overall fewer fans, even if individual shows benefit from concentrating (filtering) fans into fewer options.

It's a matter of perspective. The elephant's belly may be robust, but the elephant as a whole is sick and needs to see the vet.

The Wolf has gone blind. Your prospective on the health of the activity is so far from the truth that it is laughable.  What is your prospective based on?  Certainly not on facts. Your challenging every point of view that doesn't meet yours needs to stop.  Some of us are not going to let you continue to go down the path  you are heading down.

Charlie

 

[Jeff Ream]

1 hour ago, olddrummer34 said:

 

Respectfully, the “blind men and the elephant” analogy cuts both ways, and you are using it to selectively frame decline while discounting equally real indicators of growth.

Yes, elite corps continue to post record audition numbers. That isn’t a trivial data point; it reflects unprecedented interest, participation demand, and perceived value among students nationwide. At the same time, digital viewership, social media reach, and national exposure are orders of magnitude larger than at any point in the activity’s history. That matters, because awareness and access drive long-term sustainability, not just local ticket scans at a suburban high school show that is less than 2 hours from 5 other shows. 

Local attendance has always fluctuated based on geography, marketing, weather, and timing, this is not a new phenomenon, nor is it unique to the current era. Meanwhile, the reality is that ticket revenue, streaming revenue, and sponsorship models have diversified far beyond what existed even ten years ago.

 

As for the reduction in total corps, that metric deserves context. . What has changed is where participation and audiences now live. In many regions, the rise of high-quality, well-funded high school band programs has effectively replaced the role that local drum corps once served. This is a pipeline to modern DCI groups. 

This isn’t evidence of collapse, it’s evidence of structural replacement. The educational, financial, and production standards in today’s high school programs rival what many local corps once provided. At the same time, the broader activity now demands vastly more infrastructure, staffing, medical care, compliance, and educational rigor than it did decades ago. Survival under higher standards and a shifting pipeline is not the same as decline, it’s evolution.

You’re right about one thing: perspective matters. But perspective must include all the data, not just the belly or the tail. Right now, the evidence doesn’t suggest a dying elephant. It suggests an activity that is restructuring under modern economic, educational, and media realities. That process is uncomfortable, but historically, it has also been how this activity evolves and survives, not how it ends.

 

some good points. however some regions have been cast aside as corps fall out. and while DCI has provided all age a life line, given the crammed weekly schedule, it's not growing at a level that helps. and the availability of all age corps to do week night shows varies, which limits the amount of corps you can get in a show.

 

soundsport...i get the rationale for it. but it's not showing the growth some had hoped for. outside of Indy, i don;t see enough for these groups to help them grow. As a result, i don't see it being enough of a draw to get kids interested to want to do it.

[cixelsyd]

8 minutes ago, olddrummer34 said:

I appreciate the optimism jab

It was not a jab.  At one point, the forum seemed to be missing that entire side of the conversation.

Quote

You’re absolutely right that the cost of operating a drum corps has risen dramatically in inflation-adjusted terms, but it’s also important to be clear about why those costs rose and what they now include.

Modern drum corps now operate with standards that mirror other youth sports organizations: licensed medical professionals and athletic trainers on the road, mandated health protocols, significantly higher food and nutrition standards, improved housing requirements, mental and physical wellness resources, and strict heat/wet-bulb rehearsal guidelines. None of that is free, but all of it represents a deliberate move toward safer, more responsible youth programming. Those changes didn’t happen “for no reason”; they happened because the old model was no longer ethically or legally defensible.

Why is "for no reason" in quotes?  I never said that.  Please do not claim or imply that I did.

I guess it is important to be clear, about several things.  But you brought up why costs rose, and listed a category of contributing factors which explain part of it.  Another set of factors (since I was comparing to 50 years ago) is that we tour more than we did back then.  A third set of factors stem from the non-local nature of recruiting, which replaced year-round evening rehearsals with winter camp weekends and spring training, also requiring the services you describe above.

And to be clear - yes, there are reasons behind all of those changes. 

Quote

You’re also correct that revenue hasn’t scaled at the same rate, and that is the real structural problem worth discussing. But framing the expense growth as reckless ignores that much of it reflects modern risk management, liability protection, and baseline care that other youth activities normalized decades ago. Rolling those standards back isn’t a realistic or responsible solution.

So yes, costs went up. But so did safety, accountability, and professionalism. The hard conversation now is how to align sustainable revenue with those realities, not how to pretend we can go backwards. 

Okay, let us try to start that hard conversation.  Why do corps undercharge membership for the services they provide, and how can we fix that?

[Jeff Ream]

2 minutes ago, cixelsyd said:

It was not a jab.  At one point, the forum seemed to be missing that entire side of the conversation.

Why is "for no reason" in quotes?  I never said that.  Please do not claim or imply that I did.

I guess it is important to be clear, about several things.  But you brought up why costs rose, and listed a category of contributing factors which explain part of it.  Another set of factors (since I was comparing to 50 years ago) is that we tour more than we did back then.  A third set of factors stem from the non-local nature of recruiting, which replaced year-round evening rehearsals with winter camp weekends and spring training, also requiring the services you describe above.

And to be clear - yes, there are reasons behind all of those changes. 

Okay, let us try to start that hard conversation.  Why do corps undercharge membership for the services they provide, and how can we fix that?

because a $10k price tag will drive kids away.

[perc2100]

25 minutes ago, cixelsyd said:

Okay, let us try to start that hard conversation.  Why do corps undercharge membership for the services they provide, and how can we fix that?

That's not hard: it's far too expensive to expect young adults to pick up the tab for a year's worth of DCI, including housing/travel/meals/instruction/misc (like insurance and any sort of med. stuff corps provide for members).  Corps know they can't price their members out of the market, as that'd be the easiest/quickest way to end the activity.

The real hard question IMO: why is revenue not significant for drum corps?  Is there really not much of an audience for this activity; if that's the case, can things change to get a larger audience?  Are there BETTER ways to serve the marching member clientele that aren't so costly, even if that means a radical change to drum corps as we know it?

I don't have those answers, though I have my suspicions that there really isn't much of an audience for this niche of a niche of a niche activity (and to be blunt there likely never has been).

[waliman4444]

Respectfully, I see all of your responses as to the health or lack thereof, in DCI..Is it possible that my initial question has gone off on a tangent and away from the simple yes or no that I was seeking?..and by simple I mean comments you've heard from current mm's as they prepare for next season and beyond..thank you...peace