2 Percussion Rules Proposals

[Drumz]

Hey All

Being a person who has judged for DCM for 2 seasons and DCI this past season i'd like to say that this subject has been in discussions for a while now and it has been a touchy subject also.

It really depends on who you are as an instructor. Some guys want you back with the battery a lot. Some guys want you with the pit a lot. So you find yourself all over the place and the truth is you can't catch everything and you can't please everyone either. I really don't have a strong opinion on this subject as to what they should do but i'm sure they will think about it long and hard before they make that choice. But i do know a few instructors wouldn't mind a second judge.

As far as getting hit goes it's part of the job and the corps are pretty good about letting you know to get out the way. When i've gotten hit it's been on "first reads" but once you know the shows you know where not to go. And if you see guard people coming your way MOVE FAST. Maybe one day they will invent Jet packs so judges can fly out of the way, that might be fun.

Take care

Mike Davis

[Orpheus]

Ever since we moved to this new system with just a single "music ensemble" judge ... well, I'm not a big fan of it. Brass ensemble and percussion ensemble ought to be judged independently. I know that a trained musician is a trained musician, but a brass guy just doesn't always know how to judge percussion and vice versa, no matter how smart and/or edumacated they are. It would mean going back to nine judges (3 performance, 3 ensemble, 2 GE, 1 guard ... cutting the number was a money saving measure), but I think it's worth it.

[Crown93]

While having judges on the field (regardless of caption) may provide some insight as to the level of performance, NONE of that is worth the safety risk, no matter what.

How many kids have we all heard of whose summers were ENDED by a judge collision because the judge was not paying attention or was not able to pay attention due to the complexities of judging and getting out of the way of modern-day drum corps drill at the same time? Corps can NOT always tell you when to get out of the way. You try running through a Cadet's drill while playing 16th note triplets at 200 bpm (as I'm sure some of you have) and having the presence of mind to yell at a judge (that you might not even see in the first place) to get out of the way.

Everybody please ask yourself: is it worth risking your own safety and entire drum corps experience (not to mention that of the judge's, themselves) to catch an extra tick or two or for some fantasized "communication" between the judge and performer that supposed adds to the experience for both?

I can still hear plenty of ticks from the stands whether I am judging or just a casual audience member because outdoor percussion instruments are built to PROJECT! Saying one MUST judge those instruments up close on the field to get a true read of the performers is like saying you need to lean into a bullhorn to ask the person on the other end to repeat what they said. Same for brass. If that is the problem, then please go see an audiologist, but don't risk a kid's or judge's safety. It is not NEARLY a good enough reason when issues of bodily harm are at stake. Take all the judges off the field before anyone else's drum corps career comes to an early end.

:ramd:

[Fantomas]

While having judges on the field (regardless of caption) may provide some insight as to the level of performance, NONE of that is worth the safety risk, no matter what. 

How many kids have we all heard of whose summers were ENDED by a judge collision because the judge was not paying attention or was not able to pay attention due to the complexities of judging and getting out of the way of modern-day drum corps drill at the same time?  Corps can NOT always tell you when to get out of the way.  You try running through a Cadet's drill while playing 16th note triplets at 200 bpm (as I'm sure some of you have) and having the presence of mind to yell at a judge (that you might not even see in the first place) to get out of the way.   

Everybody please ask yourself: is it worth risking your own safety and entire drum corps experience (not to mention that of the judge's, themselves) to catch an extra tick or two or for some fantasized "communication" between the judge and performer that supposed adds to the experience for both?

I can still hear plenty of ticks from the stands whether I am judging or just a casual audience member because outdoor percussion instruments are built to PROJECT!  Saying one MUST judge those instruments up close on the field to get a true read of the performers is like saying you need to lean into a bullhorn to ask the person on the other end to repeat what they said.  Same for brass.  If that is the problem, then please go see an audiologist, but don't risk a kid's or judge's safety.  It is not NEARLY a good enough reason when issues of bodily harm are at stake.  Take all the judges off the field before anyone else's drum corps career comes to an early end.

:ramd:

For starters, if a judge is familiar with where they need to go, the risks taken to venture out onto the field are probably similar to the risks of the corps members on the field already.

During a show it was easy to yell out at a judge to get out of the way. (I'm sorry it was) "Pardon me!" "Move!" and "Heads up!" Judges got out of the way...it worked. Granted I didn't march in the busiest of all lines drill-wise. But it was still pretty busy.

And Crown93, please don't reference me as having some fantasy communication concerning drum judges. I was there, and those moment weren't fantasy. (I have tapes if you want to hear them) I was just trying to communicate that those moments contributed to the overall experience I had when I was marching. I would hate to see that taken away in the future of drumcorps.

Also, I really don't know what your experience is like as far as standing in front of a marching percussion section, but I do know that I can get a much more representative sample when standing in front of the line than when sitting in the stands. One example is when the hornline is playing a passage that is well above the volume of the battery's pianissimo passage. Almost always in this example, the battery's parts become indistinct in the stands.

It really does require a judge do go out there and evaluate a battery's lower level playing ability. That includes checking for uniformity, balance (touch), drum control, implement control, idomatic style (expression), and cleanliness. A better read on these attributes occurs when up close...period. Our staff at Cadets was notorious for coming up to us after shows to ask US how it went because they couldn't hear any ticks. It was always surprising to them when we felt like we didn't have a good show. That's because we (the line and/or judge) were some of the only people hearing the ticks on that particular night.

Maybe the whole percussion staff at Cadets needs to go see an audiologist.

But seriously, I've seen a great deal more guys/gals hurt themselves just marching the show than Percussion Judges run into the battery.

I understand the reasons for "safety first," but I believe a judge can learn how to get around the field. It's drumcorps. Everyone is taking a risk for injury whether you would have a judge on the field or not.

The probability of that judge (that knows where he/she is going) causing an injury on that field as compared to he/she off the field is most likely slim. Meaning, the chances are marginal or would consist of a small proportion of percent error.

This is my CURRENT (meaning not set in stone) perspective anyway. I think it would definitely be interesting to evaluate some videos and shows and see if there is large association between percussion judges and injuries. To the extent of my memory, and as to what I have witnessed, I have never seen a judge cause his own injury or a corps member's injury. Perhaps I just haven't witnessed enough. (Gimme a break, I'm still pretty young) We'll see.

[Jeff Ream]

i agree. we have 2/3 collisions the last few years and now everyone is freaking about it.

look, if charlie poole got hit, the drill had to be bad. also, he was warned about the move and still went. so it's his fault. most judges knew within a week where not to go in bostons drill.

once again, real drumming means nothing. it's all about the total picture. #### that, play clean and be seen.

[Crown93]

Hi all. I've calmed down a bit. I'm a bit sensitive because someone I marched with in Crown (contra player) had a collision...I don't remember which judge...but it pushed his contra-sized mouthpiece into his front teeth, knocking both of them out, leaving him a bloody mess, ending his summer 4 weeks early, and he said he did yell at the judge to move but he could not hear him. And this was when we were still Division 2 with a horn line of only about 40 or so.

There are just too many unpredictables with today's drill. Maybe 20-30 years ago it was very safe to judge on the field, but we have all seen the changes since then.

Yes, there may be moments when due to balance, certain things may not be heard by a judge that he/she might on the field. So what? Is that worth yours or their safety? Plus, how many times have drill changes in a show happened at any point in the season, just when a judge might be "getting used" to a pattern of running around.

And though I was not meaning to devalue judge-to-member communication, my argument is that the only real communication that matters in this instance is on the tapes or the sheets. Again, not worth the risk in my mind.

No matter what happens with these rules, be safe out there folks! This stuff is too fun to miss it!

:D

[lucas97]

- There's been a lot more than 2 or 3 collisions the last few years. (They don't all happen at finals, ya know.)

- Just because Charlie Poole was one judge that got hit doesn't mean that the drill must have been bad. That's pretty ridiculous to make that leap in logic.

- It's easy to yell for a judge to get out of the way....when you actually see the judge. Most collisions that I've seen are happening when the performer is backing up and can't see the judge, who is also backing up or not looking directly at what's going on immediately around them. The frenetic pace of some of today's drills are just downright dangerous if you don't know where you're going. A lot of the time is spent on figuring out safe routes rather than actually adjudicating what's going on. Enough time that it is a cause for investigation.

[Jason]

Geeze, there's only one way we can get past this problem.

Ban judging alltogether.

Problem solved.

[lucas97]

It's all about jet packs.

[Crown93]

Lucas97...you win the award for coolest quote I have ever seen on this board, hands down. (Sorry to get off thread) :OT:

How about this everybody...pit judge can walk right up to the pit (no danger there) and perc. field judge can go on the sideline or field as long as he stays in front of the closest member, no matter what section. He/she would have to stay outside all drill forms (not in them where the carnage usually occurs).