Dan Guernsey Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Specifically what the rabbit means as a rebellious symbol I don't know. Ask and you shall receive. Wikipedia's take on it: The White Rabbit in the Lewis Carroll classic Alice's Adventures in Wonderland has also featured prominently in the drug, hacker, and goth subcultures, because of the surreal adventures Alice enjoyed after following him. Makes perfect sense. Thanks for the added info, Sue. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Guernsey Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 No doubt Madison coming out of, well, Madison had a lot to do with it. Well, being from Madison was part of the problem, lol! . . . But, Bill Howard didn't identify our Alice show with the anti-war/counter culture movement. Actually, quite the opposite. He wanted to instill wholesome fun and entertainment into drum corps, not invite subversive youth rebellion ("Magical Mystery Tour" via drug use). I only brought in the more subversive treatments of "Alice in Wonderland" for context and perspective, not to suggest there was a causal connection. I just wanted to note how popular Alice was at that time in the wider culture and how it could be used in various ways--either as wholesome fun (which is what we had in mind), or youth rebellion. And you think of using "Variations on Yankee Doodle" -a clever and sophisticated arrangement in any decade-- as a color pre was just enough of an "anti-establishment" rebellious youth tweak towards those stuffy old WWII-ers who didn't have a clue, etc, ad nauseum: how perceptions change with time, eh? I don't think we were trying to be disrespectful to vets. Jazzing it up was a way to provide a fresh perspective on a well-known tune. And Dan's right, ithe whole show WAS "edgy" for as far removed as it was from the then-old school drum corps as it was....subversive is what it was, eh? Within the drum corps culture at that time, it indeed undermined the rules. And as for the stellar alignment, Dan, did it have anything to do with the Moon being in the 7th house and Jupiter aligning with Mars? :huh:Who in the heck knows, or cares! The Age of Aquarius is over, lol. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scerpella Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 (edited) And Im told that Bonnie Howard, (Bills daughter who played Alice) is still a total biscuit. ^0^ 1971 is special for me because it was my first year in drum corps. And no one then was as ###### untouchable/cool/awesome as Madison. I hated them! But there was no denying how good they were. And somehow in spite of my jealousy of them, I knew every measure of that show. Edited June 30, 2004 by dans24103 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffernbus3 Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 (edited) I, too, like the historical discussions here. They verify old stories that I heard as a kid in California....back in the early to mid-60s a real long ways away from easy witnessing of the legendary Midwestern and Eastern powerhouse corps.....all we had was vinyl and Drum Corps World and News and a road trip or two. Was just realizing after a recent series of conversations here in El Costa Medio de California with the rest of these clam shuckers that we learned a lot of US geography due to drum corps publications back in the day. Even now if somebody mentions a city "back east" --anything east of the Sierra Nevada for Californians--the first thing that immediately comes to my mind is the drum corps that was from that vicinity back then when there were so many corps around. And there's a lot of history that I missed just from being absent that I learn about here, too: good news for those who sell drum corps vids, that's for sure. RON HOUSLEY Edited June 30, 2004 by ffernbus3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffernbus3 Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 (edited) Nah, Dan, I was just exaggerating about the context of the show. And, like I said, just listing to that show without the benefit of the visuals is a tasty music arranging lesson all by itself....though I'm looking forward to seeing it again here soon if only a lesson in sense memory after a real long time. To see how close the memory of something I saw only once for less than 15 minutes 33 years ago stands the test ..well, except for the audio, that gets refreshed quite a bit here lately....thanks and big ups to Dale Johnson's legally obtainable recordings. Speaking of which, I gotta couple of Mr. Johnson's Kilties CDs coming in a bunch of McSchwag from the good folks at Kiltie Souvies....and let me pass this tip along to the gentlemen.....the Kilties Mad Plaid sweatshirt is a certified chick magnet and well worth the low price! If you tell them I sent you they'll charge you double. RON HOUSLEY Edited June 30, 2004 by ffernbus3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Guernsey Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Specifically what the rabbit means as a rebellious symbol I don't know. Ask and you shall receive. Wikipedia's take on it: The White Rabbit in the Lewis Carroll classic Alice's Adventures in Wonderland has also featured prominently in the drug, hacker, and goth subcultures, because of the surreal adventures Alice enjoyed after following him. You can throw in Hugh Hefner's "Playboy Bunny" logo as a potent symbol of the "free love" movement back then. The bunny symbolism indeed had a wide resonance in American popular culture, denoting individual freedom in its various manifestations. The rabbit in "Alice in Wonderland" and in Jefferson Starship=quest for creative liberation, while Hefner's Playboy rabbit=sexual liberation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Mercedes emblem........clever. Actually read somewhere that (supposedly) was the explaination given to VFW Officals in the "Make War No More"(?) part of the show. Might have been in the old "Drum Corps Trivia" Game I sold last year. Or mebbe it's another Drum Corps Urban legend. Our "No More War" show was actually the 1972 show....the third year of the Peace Sign. I CAN picture Bobby Hoffman telling the VFW that in 1970, though! :P Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Thread sorta puts the lie to that tired cliche about "If you can remember the 60s then you weren't there," doesn't it. 1971 is close enough to the 60s and the memory of the folks here seems to be quite intact, thank you, as far as drum corps goes.Did I mention the clean double tongue passage in "Yankee Doodle? The percussion clockworks before "Wooden Soldiers?" One valve and a rotor, key of G, slung drums......and no amps or voice-overs...OK, the witch hollered out that she was melting but that had to be there... ..and crowd-riveting entertainment of the higest calibre. Pretty good for what we had to work with, I'm thinking. RON HOUSLEY Our 1971 "Yankee Doodle" opener was based on a Boston Pops chart. A great jazz kick at the end, started by the baritones. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffernbus3 Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 (edited) Re: Boston Pops. Thanks, Mike, I though that "Yankee Doodle" might have come from a source like that. Coulda checked out Corpsrep, but was lazy. I just got through listening to it, Yankee, that is, on my way back from the morning surf. Was going to mention the Playboy Bunny in this context but thought it too obvious. Hey Dan! Which dwarf were you? Both in name and field position. RON HOUSLEY Edited June 30, 2004 by ffernbus3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffernbus3 Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 "60 Years Of Madison" arrived yesterday....Thanks, Scouts! Went to Alice first, 2nd of the 3 tapes, with a look at was it 55? Amazing how ancient squad and platoon movements look from today's perspective. Alice shot from hi cam in black in white with a couple zoom shots so it's hard to re-live what it was like to see it up close and rather personal....but having listened to the show on audio a bunch lately, I was cued where to look and what to expect....I forgot how well the Pinocchio dance went, cutting the strings and all......the dwarf file, the rabbit, Alice's first appearance......still remember how much she looked like Disney's rendition: perfect casting!.....hard to see the witch at the end tho, will have to look harder to catch that. Too bad we didn't have the video technology of today back then....lucky, though, to have folks like Madison and Cavs, to name just a couple, who have saved these things for posterity. Looking forward to watching the rest of Madison history here pretty quickly.....thanks again to THE MADISON SCOUTS, former and current, for a heckuva lot of great drum corps entertainment for a heckuva long time! RON HOUSLEY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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