Orlando Thoughts...

[Tsar Nikk]

I spent the Texas weekend with Cadets and feel this year's show is better than 2001-2003.  Not as good as 2000.  I think the two major problems this year are the drumline is almost all rookies, and the guard has not yet found the "April zone".  My feeling is that the drumline might click, but it may be too late (CA tour?), but the guard will be totally on by Finals.  The brass is, IMHO, alot better than the judges are giving them credit for, and the visual is cleaner than Cavies, and just as difficult.  (SCV is the cleanest, but not as difficult as the other three).

(PS:  Just for the sake of perspective, I never marched Cadets, I marched (16) years in one of their competitors, so I'm no "Cadet Borg".  And I'm a big Tull fan).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can you please explain to us why you think that the Cadets' drill is harder than Cavaliers? Because, as a drill writer myself, I have to disagree 100000%. In terms of speed, Cavies moved faster. In terms of charts, Cavies seemed to have more. In terms of exposure, Cavaliers appeared to have more. In almost every regard, it seemed to be that Cavaliers had the much better visual package.

And mind you, i am NOT a Cavalier. In fact, they were my rival corps, so I have nothing to gain by giving them credit. I hate the Cavaliers with the white hot intensity of a thousand suns when I marched...but I have to give credit where credit is due. They are "en fuego."

[MBDC Plaza]

I also hated the announcer, he is the BOA announcer. He's so monotone and didn't get into it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do you know which BOA announcer it was? They have two, Chuck Henson & Dan Potter.

I love Chuck's announcing, he's the one that does BOA Grand Nationals. I would call him the "Brandt Crocker" of BOA.

[Cardman]

:ramd:

I'm sorry, but I have to agree with Nikk on this point. The Cadet's show this year is just flat. I wish the kids were given something better to work with, but you can't be "super outstanding" EVERY year (unless you're Blue Devils...). I thought when I first listened to the Cadet's show, I thought, "OK, they'll clean it up and make changes musically, and I will get to know the music better, and therefore like it more...." Unfortanately, this doesn't seem to be happening. I hope the Cadets knock my socks off come Quarter Finals...I WANT them to do well (as well as all other corps).

One thing I will say is this: This year's Cadet's show will NOT take the World Championship as it is. They need a complete overhaul, IMO. George Hopkins, if you're on here, and you read this, please know that I want the Cadets to flourish, and this is why I've voiced my opinion. Cadets seem to be on a downhill journey, since 2001. Every year since 2001 seems the same, in many ways. Time for innovation, George, and I don't mean amps....I've got no problem with the pit being amped, but someone needs to breathe life into this corps....

But, hey...I haven't completely given up on this year's show. Finals night is Finals night, and I'm looking forward to seeing the Cadets kick some butt!! ^OO^

Edited July 19, 2004 by Cardman

[JMS0527]

Do you know which BOA announcer it was? They have two, Chuck Henson & Dan Potter.

I love Chuck's announcing, he's the one that does BOA Grand Nationals. I would call him the "Brandt Crocker" of BOA.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sounds like Dan Potter to me (at least on the APDs I have).

[JMS0527]

:ramd:

I'm sorry, but I have to agree with Nikk on this point.  The Cadet's show this year is just flat.  I wish the kids were given something better to work with, but you can't be  "super outstanding" EVERY year (unless you're Blue Devils...).  I thought when I first listened to the Cadet's show, I thought, "OK, they'll clean it up and make changes musically, and I will get to know the music better, and therefore like it more...."  Unfortanately, this doesn't seem to be happening.  I hope the Cadets knock my socks off come Quarter Finals...I WANT them to do well (as well as all other corps). 

One thing I will say is this:  This year's Cadet's show will NOT take the World Championship as it is.  They need a complete overhaul, IMO.  George Hopkins, if you're on here, and you read this, please know that I want the Cadets to flourish, and this is why I've voiced my opinion.  Cadets seem to be on a downhill journey, since 2001.  Every year since 2001 seems the same, in many ways.  Time for innovation, George, and I don't mean amps....I've got no problem with the pit being amped, but someone needs to breathe life into this corps....

But, hey...I haven't completely given up on this year's show.  Finals night is Finals night, and I'm looking forward to seeing the Cadets kick some butt!!  ^OO^

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

His answer to your post would be to add woodwinds, electronic sounds, and God knows what else...

[LAMystreaux]

The drill was sloppy.  There was no "ooh!" moment like there is in Cavaliers' show (for that matter, the same can be said about Regiment...there is no visual "ooh" moment in their show either).

The marching was sloppy as well, but I've come to expect that...in fact, i have come to learn that some people actually LIKE the Cadets' "bounce step."  I can't remember who it was, but it was someone on this board. who said it.  I find it incredibly sloppy.  I much prefer the Devils' style of marching technique.

If you don't like their marching style, then leave it at that, but they are anything but sloppy. Give me a break.

I know I am just an old pharte, but I just wish they would come back with a show like 1985, 1987, 1989, or 1992-1993.  Man, those shows were awesome.  Asides from 2000, I haven't really enjoyed many Cadets shows since that awesome 1993 show. 

I am cool with your above opinion. . .just that I actually think this show is comparable to a lot of the above shows you mention. To each his own.

Oh well...cue the Cadet Borg with the whole "You just don't like the Cadets because you are anti-this and anti-that."  I only wish you people would get a clue...I am not anti-Cadets.  I am anti-Cadet Borg.

I guess by your definition, I am part of the borg. . .but I'm gonna call you out. I am just as biased for as you are against. So, I think they should come in top 2. . .you think they should come in 6th or lower. I guess maybe we will compromise OUR biases and give them 3rd or 4th.

[Tsar Nikk]

If you don't like their marching style, then leave it at that, but they are anything but sloppy.  Give me a break. 

Bullpoopies. It's sloppy. Plain and simple. Crooked lines, people phasing, people out of step, bad intervals...THAT isn't sloppy? Give ME a break. Were you at the Orlando show? Did you actually see them, or are you talking out of your arse? And if you saw them in Orlando, dear God, how did you miss all the above? Were you in the first few rows? I was at the top (row 333) and I tell you, it was SLOPPY.

I am cool with your above opinion. . .just that I actually think this show is comparable to a lot of the above shows you mention.  To each his own.

Indeed. I think 2000 would #####smack this show. Now THAT was a clean and exciting show.

I guess by your definition, I am part of the borg. . .

My definition of the Cadet Borg are those "superfans" who refuse to see anything wrong with their corps at all...you're admitting to being one of these people? So be it.

but I'm gonna call you out.  I am just as biased for as you are against.

Nope. I don't care how many times it gets said, or how many board moderators make the claim: I am not biased against the Cadets. I give credit where credit is due. And I call it as I see it. You know, just because the Cadets have been successful in the past does not automatically guarantee a great show every year. And if I am in the minority of thinking that this show is a turkey, so be it. But if they come out next year with a kick-butt rendition of Copland's "Billy the Kid" or Torke's "Javeling" or even Appalachian Spring again AND they perform it well, i will be sitting there cheering for them.

I think what befuddles most of you Borg is that someone can actually like the Cadets' products some years and not like them in other years. You are "assimilated" to believe the following "Three Laws of Borghood" (yes, that is a nod to my favourite SF writer, Asimov):

1. Nothing that the Cadets create is bad.

2. No corps can march/play/spin/drum as well as the Cadets.

3. Anyone who doesn't like any part of the Cadets is a Cadet Basher and must be assimilated.

So, I think they should come in top 2. . .you think they should come in 6th or lower.  I guess maybe we will compromise OUR biases and give them 3rd or 4th.

I'm going to assume you were in Orlando since you are saying they should come in top 2. And after seeing Devils, SCV, and Cavaliers (heck, even Regiment and Bluecoats) you can honestly say that Cadets are a top TWO corps?

Well, all I can say is...

Resistance is Futile.

[LAMystreaux]

Bullpoopies.  It's sloppy.  Plain and simple.  Crooked lines, people phasing, people out of step, bad intervals...THAT isn't sloppy?  Give ME a break.  Were you at the Orlando show?  Did you actually see them, or are you talking out of your arse?  And if you saw them in Orlando, dear God, how did you miss all the above?  Were you in the first few rows?  I was at the top (row 333) and I tell you, it was SLOPPY.  Indeed.  I think 2000 would #####smack this show.  Now THAT was a clean and exciting show.

I guess in Orlando it may have been sloppy. I only just saw them in San Antonio, up close and personal at their clinic for about an hour and then from my seats on the 50 bottom level, so no I am not speaking out of butt. . .RUDE!. . .and I bet I would not have to dig too deep to find posts by you saying Cadets were not clean on Finals night and should not have won in 2000.

My definition of the Cadet Borg are those "superfans" who refuse to see anything wrong with their corps at all...you're admitting to being one of these people?  So be it.

Nope.  I don't care how many times it gets said, or how many board moderators make the claim: I am not biased against the Cadets.  I give credit where credit is due.  And I call it as I see it.  You know, just because the Cadets have been successful in the past does not automatically guarantee a great show every year.  And if I am in the minority of thinking that this show is a turkey, so be it.  But if they come out next year with a kick-butt rendition of Copland's "Billy the Kid" or Torke's "Javeling" or even Appalachian Spring again AND they perform it well, i will be sitting there cheering for them.

No, I was just commenting that you had already labeled me a borg. I reviewed The Cadets harshly the past 2 summers when I saw them in Dallas and San Antonio because I was not diggin the product. . .although by Finals week they proved me wrong. Speaking to your bias, which you deny. . .if The Cavies are so freakin awesome (and they are really good) and Cadets are so horrible, then how are they scoring within a point of them?

1.  Nothing that the Cadets create is bad.

Read the above. . .I have disliked The Cadets on a few viewings in recent years.

2.  No corps can march/play/spin/drum as well as the Cadets.

I knew Cavies would beat Cadets in San Antonio. . .they were cleaner that night.

3.  Anyone who doesn't like any part of the Cadets is a Cadet Basher and must be assimilated.

Not true again (at least of me). Fair criticism is fair criticism. . .but as I stated before you are obviously not a fan of their marching style, but if they are as sloppy as you say, they would be scoring much lower in the VE captions. . .right? Or I guess the judges are just missing it. No, you're not biased at all.

I'm going to assume you were in Orlando since you are saying they should come in top 2.  And after seeing Devils, SCV, and Cavaliers (heck, even Regiment and Bluecoats) you can honestly say that Cadets are a top TWO corps?

Nope, only saw Dallas and San Antonio. Would I be the first person to predict a corps placement prior to seeing all corps? ****, half the prognosticators on this site have not even been to one show I bet. So. . .move on.

Oh, and by the way. . .Bluecoats rock!

[jwillis35]

Nikk, let me say something. I respect you and always like your reviews, even when I disagree on a thing or two. So please understand that I mean no disrespect when I say forget about what others on this group say or think and just write your review. I would have appreciated your sincere review on the Cadets show just as you did on the others. Who cares what the others think? I love the Cadets myself, but I don't like every show they pump out. And when I write a review I just don't care what others think about my opinions. I knnow how the shows made me feel and I say that. People disagree but I just don't care and I don't go round after round with them about how I feel. People on this, or any, newsgroup will act out some and voice their displeasure with others opinions. What I like is when people just give me their honest opinions, even when their bias is involved. I know you love Phantom. That's what is so cool about it. You offer that perspective and we should relish that and accept it as part of who you are and what you like.

I think it's about half and half this year with Cadets. Some like it, some don't. I took a good friend to the Toledo show and she didn't care for them. I loved 'em. She loved the Cavies more, although I will admit that I love that show too.

I don't know, but I would like to hear your opinions on their show. I do hear they had a bad night and looked like crap. I think they were lucky to score what they did.

[Tsar Nikk]

I bet I would not have to dig too deep to find posts by you saying Cadets were not clean on Finals night and should not have won in 2000.   

I didn't say that they should have won, did I? I just said that I personally liked that show a lot. Did I think it was very VERY clean? No...visually it was pretty clean, but musically it was a tad sloppy...not enough to really kill it for me, but enough for me to think that Cavaliers were the champs that year.

Just because I like a corp's performance does not mean I think it should win the title.

Speaking to your bias, which you deny. . .if The Cavies are so freakin awesome (and they are really good) and Cadets are so horrible, then how are they scoring within a point of them? 

How the heck should I know the minds of the judges? I've disagreed with judging almost my entire drum corps life. I thought Star should have won in 1990. I thought Regiment should have been 6th place in 1994. I thought Cavaliers were a better corps than Devils last year. As you can see, my OPINIONS don't bear much resemblance to judges' decisions. I don't know why the Cadets are scoring so close to the Cavaliers right now.

Not true again (at least of me).  Fair criticism is fair criticism. . .but as I stated before you are obviously not a fan of their marching style, but if they are as sloppy as you say, they would be scoring much lower in the VE captions. . .right?  Or I guess the judges are just missing it.  No, you're not biased at all.

Nope, I am not. Glad we settled that. :P Again, I don't know why the judges aren't catching all the sloppiness. But as I said before...just because a judge doesn't call it does not mean it doesn't exist. After all...do you think the 1991 Devils deserved to win VE over Star, Cavies, or PR?

Nope, only saw Dallas and San Antonio.  Would I be the first person to predict a corps placement prior to seeing all corps?  ****, half the prognosticators on this site have not even been to one show I bet.  So. . .move on.

Move on? Hah hah....you guys are the ones who keep defending the corps against little old me...I think somehow that they don't need the defense. And for you to use the fact that some kooks on here predict placements before they have seen any shows doesn't really strenghten your points. I'll move on if you will. As you said...if they are that good, they will be top two, right? So you will be vindicated, and people can point at me and laugh at my blindness or my lack of knowledge. However...I have a feeling Cadets are not going to be a top two corps this year.

Oh, and by the way. . .Bluecoats rock!

Yeah, well this I can agree with. Bluecoats are smoking, and I frankly believe they have a better product than both Regiment and Cadets.