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ALLENTOWN-BD Vs. SCV


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Perhaps as a Former Marching Member of the Cavaliers in their brass line (and a Cavalier fan, natch!) I can offer a different perspective.

VANGUARD: I love them- always have. I think they are classy and fairly well fit my definition of a drum corps. I think they have always been innovative when it comes to drill and music, and their shows are always challenging. Sometimes their shows are not the most accessible musically, but I don't mind that at all. The only things that I haven't liked about them have been the 2nd helping of Phantom (why repeat a show?) and the New Era chant-- which I thought should have been called 'Big Breather' instead.

One of the best qualities about Vanguard (I think) is that they MARCH! They have speed and difficulty in their drill. Both of which I appreciate as Drum Corps IS after all a marching / visual activity.

DEVILS: I love them-- always have. I think they are tough and intense and have an edge that you could cut yourself on. They are the jocks of DCI, and they rock my world musically. I think their brass lines year in and year out have the fattest, nicest, crispest sound. And loud, too! Technically I don't think they can be matched (except by the Cadets sometimes). I can listen to the Devils music again and again, and rarely have I found a year that I don't like.

That being said, I don't think I can honestly remember a moment of any Devil's show drill-wise. Typically I view it as a vehicle to stage their hornline and percussion appropriately-- that's it. They do the staging very well, which yields them big volume hits and GE impacts (which is a definite skill) and their colorguard ties it all in nicely together because they are good. A bit too dancy, but good nonetheless.

People are criticizing the Devil's music lately as being big horn stabs and hits. I don't think I mind the use of them, as the hits are loud and very crisp. and those attacks are difficult to time and get to sound good. I understand why Wayne is using them along with the rhythmic repetition in the horn line. However, I do sort of miss some of the more melodic music they played 10 years ago.

Enough rambling...

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A reply to NDNation.

My son explained SCV's attitude to me in almost the same terms. He said SCV is more concerned about performing their show to perfection than with winning. That is a refreshing attitude in today's win at all cost world. I always told my baseball teams that I would be more proud of them if they played their best, even if they didn't win, than if they played a sloppy game and somehow lucked into a win.

The thing I appreciate so much about drum corps is the discipline and integrity they teach to these remarkable young men and women.

Regardless of who wins in Denver, this has been a wonderfully entertaining and rewarding season already. Thanks to each of you, who know music and marching, for sharing your knowledge and insight with the rest of us.

But just to let you know I am not above cheering for "my team" SCV, SCV, SCV!

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For the last two decades, BD's values have been 1) to look cool, and 2) to win.  If learning can happen while looking cool and winning...even better.  SCV has always been about learning.  Learning integrity.  Learning partnership and teamwork.  Learning tradition and loyalty.  If they can win while "doing" learning...even better.

I'm just curious ... upon what information do you base the above statement?

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Frankly, I don't think that was a very balanced comparison. You gush over BD and then nitpick SCV. I only saw them once each, but I got a totally different vibe. First, let me say that I think they are both great corps that are performing difficult programs at a very high level. However, I find BD musically to be rather loud, aggressive, and about as nuanced as... well. something that isn't very nuanced. To me, their drill seemed static and their guard was not well-integrated (seemed to be doing their own show). But they do execute better than anyone else.

SCV on the other hand seemed to have a better "total show" design, with all elements - music, drill, guard - working toward the same effect most of the time. Their drill has more movement and more impact points than BD, or at least it seemed that way to me. SCV's execution in both music and marching was just perceptably not quite to the level of BD.

In terms of emotional connection, there was no comparison (for me). Scheherezade was simply magical. BD was just too cerebral. Also, their attitude really turns me off. I'm from Chicago so I have a certain idea of "blues". BD didn't really approximate that too well, but, hey, that's just me. I have a different description of BD's style of music, but it isn't real complementary, so I'll just keep it to myself.

I've been catching up on my summer reading, so if I had to compare BD and SCV to American authors, I'd say BD is like Hemingway - clear, succinct, well-structured, masculine, and letter perfect. SCV reminds me more of F. Scott Fitzgerald - a little more loosely structured, but also a more lyrical style, more romantic, and, ultimately, more satisfying. My own opinion, of course.

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I agree, BD has one of the easiest shows in the top 12. I'm pretty sure had they given the show to BD-C (Div 3) they would play it just as well, if not better. What would you expect from such an amazingly easy show.

I also agree about BD sounding like a big band. A corps playing jazz shouldn't sound like a big band, what the #### is wrong with this guys? They've got everything ### backwards.

This has got to be one of the most clueless, ignorant displays of someone not knowing anything they are talking about......

Now, since you saw everyone in the top twelve, tell me from your years of marching, playing, viewing experience which of the top twelve corps has more demand. Tell me how it is an amazingly easy show ? Use examples please, youhave such cinviction and absolution in your statement that you must be able to back it up.

If big band is jazz, and a corps that plays jazz sounds like big band, the deduction would be that a corps that plays jazz will sound like a big bad, not sure of the nature or meaning of your statement here....A) they dont sound like a big band, B ) Manyc orps hav e sounded like a "big band" over the years.....most while you were still learning to crawl.

So, I'll be waiting for you to backup your statements.

~G~

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This has got to be one of the most clueless, ignorant displays of someone not knowing anything they are talking about......

Now, since you saw everyone in the top twelve, tell me from your years of marching, playing, viewing experience which of the top twelve corps has more demand. Tell me how it is an amazingly easy show ? Use examples please, youhave such cinviction and absolution in your statement that you must be able to back it up.

If big band is jazz, and a corps that plays jazz sounds like big band, the deduction would be that a corps that plays jazz will sound like a big bad, not sure of the nature or meaning of your statement here....A) they dont sound like a big band, B  ) Manyc orps hav e sounded like a "big band" over the years.....most while you were still learning to crawl.

So, I'll be waiting for you to backup your statements.

~G~

G...

He was being sarcastic about people who are ragging on BD's show. :)

Calm down, my BD lovin' friend. :)

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Let me clarify by what I mean by "big band". They sound like a large band with two screaming soloist, not a big band per se. They're a very good large band with many talented people at every level of the organization.

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B) I probably should keep my big mouth shut here but I feel compelled to say something about BD-vs-SCV. I have been watching both for many years and I do have a favorite but I just think there is a factor that nobody ever talks about. It's probably going to hurt some feelings so I apologize in advance. And it's just my opinion so I'd like to hear from others who might agree with me. BD ALWAYS ALWAYS looks good as it pertains to their uniforms. I never felt that way about SCV. I'm sure they take great pride in thier uniforms but they just don't work for me. It seems a nasty shade of green.

Yeah, they should go back to the uniforms they wore in 1991 for Miss Saigon. Maybe not the exact same ones, but the same colors and style. Very sharp, classy, intense looking unis, while staying within the SCV tradition. I doubt their choice of uniforms/colors over the last 5 or so years have had much effect on GE, but they have been (especially this current season) way too green. Add the red, and it looks like Christmas on the football field. Now if they were playing Christmas music, this might be just perfect.

I love SCV. I beleive they have the best show in DCI, but they are just not executing it as well as they could (I know they could do it...it's just not happening right now.) They have the best designed show, a lot of talent, intensity, and the best DCI drumline. But for some reason, they just are NOT pulling it off. They lack GE in several spots, and they could use a few more 'WOW' moments, IMHO.

Besides that, they have an amazing show that COULD win DCI this year if they could just execute a little better, pump up GE some more, and turn it up a notch. They are CLASS on the football field, and they put a lot of emotion into their storytelling.

Do the members want it bad enough? Can they reach deep down inside enough to pull out those "WOW" moments that's needed from them right now? I don't know.

They could use a pep talk from former director JW Koester right now. That man knew how to rally the troops and iginite the corps. I wish he was still there!! He is a birlliant man and corps director, and I can't help but think that his insight and charisma is just what SCV needs right now at their current stage. They have the talent, the emotion, and one of the best designed shows (especially if they could add 1 or 2 magical moments to it by Denver). There is just SOMETHING missing....

Good Luck, Santa Clara!!

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This has got to be one of the most clueless, ignorant displays of someone not knowing anything they are talking about......

G...

He was being sarcastic about people who are ragging on BD's show. :)

Calm down, my BD lovin' friend. :)

LOL ... he even +SAID+ he was being sarcastic (several posts later). I thought it was obvious.

P.S. On another topic, SCV's current uniforms are, IMHO, the best they've ever had. The "classic" ones were fine, but they always looked frumpy, ill-fitting, and ill-made to me. The "Miss Saigon" ones were okay for that one show, but I just don't like them on the whole. They're not right for Santa Clara, anyway. The current ones are sleek, streamlined, and look great on the field.

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There is so much extra s$^# floating around this particular board, its hard to tell what the real issue is. BD vs SCV. We're talking about two corps that have very, but not completely different approaches to the activity. SCV focuses very hard on the visual, BD on the musical. I think people agree on that? To compare BD's visual to SCV's, SCV wins hands down. Conversely, to compare BD's musical to SCV's, BD kicks some serious #$%. BD is looking for a sound that is completely different from SCV's. Look at what they are playing. To have a symphonic brass sound playing blues would make absolutely no sense. Same applies to SCV's sound. To have them sound like a "big band" as someone said, would be totally inappropriate for Scheherezade. I do agree thought that SCV needs more lower brass sound. Speaking of which, they are marching no euphoniums. I am wondering how much of a difference that is making to the overall sound. In general, BD is executing more consistently at a higher level than SCV. Right now. As SCV continues to clean their show, I think it will become apparent that they have a stronger production as well as a more talented corps. I think. Only the next two weeks will tell. Just my opinion. . .

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