Evening San Antonio Show Review

[Hornman]

Nice review..

[Minimaster]

Has any of you actually looked at the judge scores. How can you say that it awarded more to visual? It is split 50/50. Why do you say it awards a bigger percentage to visual? To Pilot Panther- What musically training do you have? I would have to think it must be very limited for you to find The Cavaliers music "inaccessible." You seem to be hypocritical in that you don't think the huge props that the Cadets are wonderful and yet don't think they are hurting the activity. You get all old school when it comes the corps you don't like doing new stuff, but when the Cadets decide to, it's wonderful. That's just plain stupid. Drum Corps is not a concert festival, you have to focus on both music and visual. Everybody with in earshot of me at SA thought the Cavaliers show was amazing and very entertaining musically and visually.

[festive]

I think you are an embarrassment to the activity. To make a statement that if the Cavaliers win this year that it will damage the activity is not only stupid, but ignorant.  It's obvious to most of us here that you know nothing about music in general and it shows in your comments.

Eeek. It's just an opinion; I'll bet we all saw it as such when we read it. This person is not an embarrassment to the activity. He's exaggerating, certainly, when he says that a Cavies win will "damage" the activity. It won't--and I expect them to win if they have the best performance. DCI had better give it to them if they earn it.

But no reason to throw one exaggeration after another.

If he "knows nothing about music," then I am especially interested in hearing his comments, because that means he is a typical fan. Though I may not agree with his opinions, I'll defend his right to them. Just like Ipecac's caustic, though thoroughly enjoyable, review from earlier in the season.

[Sluggo]

even though we may all dislike someone opinions, we are all entitled to them..just as long as you can back up why you feel a certain way. just remember, we are all here to have fun....

[strad]

to quote your review:

"" I think this show if it does win DCI finals this year will do more to damage this activity than any other show. DCI did not let Star pull off their undefeated season in 1993, but right now Cavies you are the darlings of DCI and anything goes. What you did you did VERY VERY well. However, I wish you hadn’t. Even the audience I think was a little, huh??? I have read that you are pushing forward the activity with this show. Don’t – please. Jeff Felder knows what the DCI judges are looking for and this show hits all the buttons for the DCI judging staff. If this show is the future of drum corps we might as well change the name now. VDC – Visual Drum Corps. Sorry I can’t be more positive. Very changeling show to perform, but not one of your design staffs better efforts in my book, maybe I’m too old school. I had you 1st with a 92.6 I was .15 off you scored 92.45. Visually the scores are worth 60% of score, Cavies staff know this and playing it perfectly. ""

i couldn't have said it better. i posted a discussion a couple weeks ago about the different, mainly visual, philosophies of cadets v. cavies, and said many of the things you said here. in fact, i just watched the cavies' 2001 show a dozen times. very cool visual, fast marching (almost ALWAYS when they're not playing), and god awful, high school level music. but you have to give the cavies credit: they know how to score high. i too fear for the future of dci if other corps decide that visual is all that matters, that the music should be the slave of the visual, that challenging drill should be written to be marched and not marched and played (like cadets, BD, SCV have been doing for years).

great review. though i'm sure some cavies fans will disagree with the same conviction and fervor that professional wrestling fans defend their 'sport'.

strad

[victrussell]

I finally have an insight into the problem with DCI scoring. The visual judges are calling the shots. Yet, in my view, this is a musical activity. The biggest mistake was giving the so-called color guard (dancers?) a separate score. Secondly, the visual effect score appears to give too much weight to the color guard. I think emphasizing dance over music is a huge mistake. Do visual-effect judges have any musical background?

[MikeD]

Sluggo,

> even though we may all dislike someone opinions, we are all entitled to them..just as

long as you.........

.....remember that I am always right!

Mike

[festive]

Do visual-effect judges have any musical background?

Good question. Does anyone know what it takes to qualify as a visual judge? Don't laugh...I really don't know. :P

I imagine, for music anyway, it's advanced degrees in music performance or education, or perhaps even professional experience. But I might be wrong about that.

[kevingamin]

Sluggo,

> even though we may all dislike someone opinions, we are all entitled to them..just as

long as you.........

.....remember that I am always right!

Mike

Sorry, Mike, I already have a copyright on that line. B)

[Hornhoser]

I finally have an insight into the problem with DCI scoring.   The visual judges are calling the shots.  Yet, in my view, this is a musical activity.   The biggest mistake was giving the so-called color guard (dancers?) a separate score.   Secondly, the visual effect score appears to give too much weight to the color guard.    I think emphasizing dance over music is a huge mistake.   Do visual-effect judges have any musical background?

ENOUGH! Please...can we get the facts straight?

(taking a deep breath now.....)

VISUAL:

GE = 20 points

PERFORMANCE = 30 points (20 marching+20 ensemble+20 guard)/2

TOTAL = 50 points

MUSIC:

GE = 20 points

PERFORMANCE = 30 points (20 brass+20 ensemble+20 percussion)/2

TOTAL = 50 points

Now, it's been a while since I have been in school, but I am pretty sure that this equals a 50/50 split between visual and music.

Furthermore, the color guard actually represents (essentially) 10 points of the 60 points available for captions and 1/10th the overall score. This is the exact same point allotment as for brass and percussion.

So how exactly do the sheets give too much emphasis to the color guard? Where exactly is dance being emphasized over music? What should the visual effects judge do? Ignore the guard and anything that resembles dance? Dance and guard have been an integral part of the activity for the last....30...40....50 years. Should we not judge these things?

I might also point out that there are 4 visual judges and 4 music judges.

How are the visual judges calling the shots when there are an equal amount of music judges giving scores? Are you saying that the visual judges are dictating what the music judges do? If you think that the music judges are easily influenced by the visual judges you are mistaken. There are some egos involved here that are not easily influenced by anyone, much less someone who is not trained in music adjudication.

Sorry Victrussell if I sound like I'm ranting at you. This is really directed at the many posts I have read here (and there) blaming the system for giving more weight to the visual portion of the programs when it's actually a 50/50 split.

Please someone....anyone explain how 50/50 is uneven because I don't see it.

Hornhoser

(trained in old math and not a visual person)