I lost a good friend Saturday:(

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OK--so let's ignore the "whining" (alleged) and tell me what to do to "push the envelope"? I can't imagine what there's left to do visually that could outwow some of the things I've seen from Gaines, Roseander, Chambers, etc, etc, over the last 10 years. I don't know what else that can be done musically that is so innovative and new. Playing into large cones like Renegades and Blue Devils is fun to watch, but is THAT innovation, or just schtick? I mean, sure, there's music that hasn't been done on the field, but what music can be done that won't draw comparisons to something done already, and all the thoughts that go with that kind of comparing? What can a guard do that hasn't been done? Personally, I think more gymnastics should be done out there. Flips, and stuff like that. But what equipment wise hasn't already been done?

These are sort of serious questions...so instead of just asking "where the innovation?" or stating that "corps should keep pushing the envelope"....HOW?

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maybe everyones trying to push the envelope soo hard that they have lost sight of what it is they are trying to accomplish. Stop trying to "out inovate" each other and just do a show that is visually stimulating and musically entertaining. is that soo crazy these days?

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maybe everyones trying to push the envelope soo hard that they have lost sight of what it is they are trying to accomplish. Stop trying to "out inovate" each other and just do a show that is visually stimulating and musically entertaining. is that soo crazy these days?

Good Points! On one of the other strings concerning scoring there has been a comparison to figure skating. That comparison works here too. How many (pick your element - triple toe loop, sowcow (sp??), etc. ) can you do? I tend to think that assuming a corps has it's priorities straight - teach, perform, entertain, it then comes down to one thing - the pursuit of perfection.

Let me use an example that some of you may be familiar with but others will not - Texas A&M's Aggie Band. This band marches 240 to 300 on any given game day. These guys and gals are not music majors and frankly probably only a relatively small portion would make a Drum Corps audition. The songs are almost always the same, the drills are somewhat similar but the one thing that is so inspiring is the attention to detail that makes a performance as close to perfect as possible. Remember, this is a military style band but the precision is what makes all the difference and what breeds the excitement in all the spectators - not just Aggie fans. They do use a lot of innovation in marching styles, patterns and member placement (a few years ago they were having problems with their drill design computer telling them they could not do a particular move that it meant 2 people in the same place at the same time - they did it anyway.

Nothing will beat a well designed corps show where the attention has been given to detail, the music is right and the end product entertains.

One last comment and I'll be done. On the flip side of this coin consider the fact that what some corps have done that some would consider innovation (amps in the pit, spoken dialog, a baton twirler for crying-out-loud (which, btw, is pretty stinkin' good - when's the last time you threw a baton a 1000 feet in the air and caught it standing onyour head behind your back?), spitting water (rum?) all over the drill field, etc.), others consider Drum Corps blasphemy!!

Man am I looking forward to Denver!! :P

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You said it right. For me it was '87 Cadets that made me love them. This year is truly the end of the Cadets as we once knew them. This is by far the worst show they have ever put together since the late 1970's. And you're right, they've become somewhat Madison-esque but in a different way.

Little did I know that a 3 hour drive to Indianapolis would be for a funeral. Zooming across I-70, I anticipated an evening of drum corps pleasure. My reactions to most were blase. This isn't "my year" for corps. Crown had me at "On the Field..." but that danged microphone marred an otherwise tremendous effort--my favorite this year (congrats, kids!).

It's no secret that I'm a rabid Cadets fan. I've already told the tale of when they absolutely stunned me in semi-finals 1985 (my first live view of them).  Ever since, when I see them enter the field, my heartrate (literally) increases. I salivate! Funny aside: every year, I note the exact time of my "first sighting" (always the waiting pit musicians).

I still hold that 1985 Finals performance as the Greatest Show Ever Done. Sure, Star, Cavies and BD have since outperformed them, but the design and total production have never been surpassed. That's fine. They've had some incredible outings since. There were the lackluster years: '88, '91, '99, and recently, '01 THROUGH '03. But they always rallied back, reinvented the wheel and took me to musical/visual places others cannot.

Well, after their performance on Saturday, they died to me. No more. This is the 4th consecutive year of a truly subpar, unimaginative program. It's crap. I don't care how hard the audience claps; they've become vintage Madison. I actually stared at the stadium clock for the last three minutes wondering if it would ever end. It's boring and has no substance in drill or music or color guard. Of course, I am in the minority here, but I'm hoping the tech staff will come to my hometown and vault Capital Regiment into the upper echelon. J. Sacktig's drill for Cap is FAR more interesting than his Cadet one...hey, it's not his fault. With CAP, he had a VERY good score in which to interpret.

Mr. Hopkins told a sappy tale following their performance about crowd reactions (likening their clinic to a rock concert). Well, I don't care for rock concerts.

Am I throwing away the bushel due to one rotten apple? Yup. I'll spend my money elsewhere.

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"If you are so turned off by the Cadets show this year ( not my favorite Cadet show either) that it has made you want to never attend a show again, then it's best that you leave as you say. Why drive so far and pay such money for just one Corps viewing? If it's just the Cadets that you principally came for, ( which it sounds like ) then if I was you, I wouldn't want to spend so much time and money driving 3 hours to watch 9 minutes of attempted entertainment that failed either. So Best of luck and goodbye to you."

Lieut. General Effect:  You seem to have no idea of what corps fans actually go through year in and year out.  Yeah, we could all be like you and jump on the bandwagon, but most of us prefer to listen and watch with style and intelligence, then we relate it to ourselves.  If you don't agree try to be a little more diplomatic.  Do you know what that means?

:whistle: b**bs

And coming from a Scouts fan...since 1975 mind you, I have gone through my share of pain....like the past 3 years....but, even with that, I am always there to support...really all corps...even if one is lackluster in a given year. I actually thought the Cadets kicked some butt last year...especially the percussion!!

So...I don't know where Lieut. GE is coming from...and hey, there are many other corps to enjoy if you think your favorite is sucking. My guess is that they don't suck...it's just that you....individually... don't like the show...and 35,000 others don't feel that way. So, there you go. Nice to see the Scouts putting the wood on the ball this year...it's been a while.

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i have to agree in many cases on both sides.

what i find funniest is during this period of whining about stifled creativity, and adding unneccesary equipment to enhance the argument, we see shows that are retro in a bad way.

seems that their arguments are made hollow by their programming.

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I know how OhioStateTad feels. The Cadets used to be one of my favorite corps. Before I was in High School I wore out a video of '87 because I thought it was the coolest thing I had ever seen. And they maintained that style though about '93, after that there was a change, and certainly a decline. A decline not nessecarily in performance quality, that hasn't happened yet, but a decline in interesting an unique show ideas.

The last few years have been indicative of what has happened to them. 2001 they had the most talented corps on the field, but it didn't matter because the show was a disaster. 2002 was just a mess all around. 2003 was an attempt to brin back memories of corps from yesteryear that didn't realy work as a show. (Rocky Point Holiday??? My ###. That wasn't even close to being a good rendition of RPH, and that's one of my favorite charts of all time.)

Tad is right the Cadets of their glory days are officially dead. They've been on life support for some time. They certainly have talent still coming to the corps. They might be the most talented corps this year too, but once again you can't tell because of the product they were given.

This is an easy fix, but I doubt the mangament of the corps willing to do what it takes.

Here's what I would do if I were Hoppy:

1) Stay out of the programming arena, there are clearly better people to do that on my staff (Marc Sylvester, April Gilligen, Jay Bocock)

2) Fire Jeff Sacktig. Not because he's doing a bad job, he's not, he's a very good drill writer. But when you have a GREAT drill (Marc) writer on staff why wouldn't you use him.

3) Hire a good color guard designer. April is a very effective coordinator, and cleaner, so she should do that, and nothing else. This is probably the biggest problem with the corps. They used to have the BEST color guard in the activity. It used to be BD and Cadets would win Color Guard every year. Now they finish a consistent 3rd or 4th. It because of the writing, and the concept that the guard is using. They haven't has a good guard since Jim Moore and Keith Potter left in '94 and '98 respectfully.

4) Stop worrying about trying to entertain. Entertainment comes from putting an interesting well performed product on the field.

5) Stop trying to be something that you're not. Cadets doing Jazz has never worked. So STOP TRYING.

6) Don't think about doing something new. Don't think about being inovative. Just put out a god product. Did George Zingali think about doing something new in '84? Did Star think about being completely different from anything that had ever been seen before in '93? I don't think so, they just created what they thought would work, and it was something we had never seen before.

If these steps, or something like them, are not taken the talent will stop coming. And that would be really bad for you organization. I'm sure that there will always be enough talent to field a good Cadets, but what's going to happen to the Crossmen? They would be the ones to end up not performing on Finals night because of The Cadets not pulling enough talent anymore.

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Alas..as a long-time Dolfan, I feel your pain.  And after this off season, the saga continues and only gets worse! :(

Ah man, I must say I hate the dolphins (grew up in Buffalo), not as much as the Packers and the Rams, but man I hate them. In the late 80's the Vikings replaced the Bills as my no. 1 team. Still, I had to endure 4 heartbreaking Super Bowl loses and I'm a Vikings fan. So you Dolphin fans - pipe it - you don't know real pain! :P

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