I lost a good friend Saturday:(


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Alas..as a long-time Dolfan, I feel your pain.  And after this off season, the saga continues and only gets worse! :(

AMEN!!

From another Dolfan since birth!!!

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You said it right.  For me it was '87 Cadets that made me love them.  This year is truly the end of the Cadets as we once knew them.  This is by far the worst show they have ever put together since the late 1970's.  And you're right, they've become somewhat Madison-esque but in a different way.

Funny, I felt that way about Stonehenge ('98) and The Big Apple ('99). Cadets more than proved me wrong then.

And I LOVE this year's show, too!

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I'm just sad that I won't get to see the Cadets live & in person this season. - :( - Sounds like a cool show.

--

Fan #1 -- "Corps are too esoteric these days. They spend so much time trying to be innovative and artistic that they forget about the fans."

Fan #2 -- "I've had it with these guys. All they care about is getting a positive reaction from the audience. Why can't they be more creative?"

Me -- You can't please everybody.

^0^

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ProfHill--you claim that talent will "stop coming" to the Cadets if they don't change their ways. Hmmmm...apparently, if they keep going back to the band camp that they play at (I think it's called "Music is Cool") and keep getting the kind of crowd response that was described by George Hopkins, I don't think there will ever be a drought in the talent department. They may do shows YOU don't like, but to forecast a corps' demise, and referring to them as being on life support when truly their scores and popularity with the crowds are strong evidence against your opinion, seems to be you standing on the end of a rather shaky limb.

IMHO, of course...

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This is my 3rd year with Drum Corp, we have discovered a world we never knew existed and are better for it.

My brother is a sport writer, see it all and covered it all. I invited him to a show this year. All Div II and III. He - like all of us when we first see this - was mazed by the intricacy of the field show, the precise movements on the field, near collisions and constant activity. Couped with the music and playing while moving, he was amazed, and said it was as difficult if not more than any sport he has seen. Let a football player move this much this fast across his field carrying a Contra or bari or while playing on a sop or twirling a flag - stumble city.

These kids learn and do the impossible. We are constantly amazed. Yes. as we get further along in our "education" in drumcorp we get critical of the individual shows. Look again from the newbie stage. Learn again to see these shows from the perspective of one new in the stands.

That my kid also learns dedication, hard work and comaraderie is icing on the cake.

I may like some shows better than others, I may not like the music in one at all, I still am amazed these kids can pull it off at all. I hope I never lose this fascination.

Dad

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I know how OhioStateTad feels. The Cadets used to be one of my favorite corps. Before I was in High School I wore out a video of '87 because I thought it was the coolest thing I had ever seen. And they maintained that style though about '93, after that there was a change, and certainly a decline. A decline not nessecarily in performance quality, that hasn't happened yet, but a decline in interesting an unique show ideas.

The last few years have been indicative of what has happened to them. 2001 they had the most talented corps on the field, but it didn't matter because the show was a disaster. 2002 was just a mess all around. 2003 was an attempt to brin back memories of corps from yesteryear that didn't realy work as a show. (Rocky Point Holiday??? My ###. That wasn't even close to being a good rendition of RPH, and that's one of my favorite charts of all time.)

Tad is right the Cadets of their glory days are officially dead. They've been on life support for some time. They certainly have talent still coming to the corps. They might be the most talented corps this year too, but once again you can't tell because of the product they were given.

This is an easy fix, but I doubt the mangament of the corps willing to do what it takes.

Here's what I would do if I were Hoppy:

1) Stay out of the programming arena, there are clearly better people to do that on my staff (Marc Sylvester, April Gilligen, Jay Bocock)

2) Fire Jeff Sacktig. Not because he's doing a bad job, he's not, he's a very good drill writer. But when you have a GREAT drill (Marc) writer on staff why wouldn't you use him.

3) Hire a good color guard designer. April is a very effective coordinator, and cleaner, so she should do that, and nothing else. This is probably the biggest problem with the corps. They used to have the BEST color guard in the activity. It used to be BD and Cadets would win Color Guard every year. Now they finish a consistent 3rd or 4th. It because of the writing, and the concept that the guard is using. They haven't has a good guard since Jim Moore and Keith Potter left in '94 and '98 respectfully.

4) Stop worrying about trying to entertain. Entertainment comes from putting an interesting well performed product on the field.

5) Stop trying to be something that you're not. Cadets doing Jazz has never worked. So STOP TRYING.

6) Don't think about doing something new. Don't think about being inovative. Just put out a god product. Did George Zingali think about doing something new in '84? Did Star think about being completely different from anything that had ever been seen before in '93? I don't think so, they just created what they thought would work, and it was something we had never seen before.

If these steps, or something like them, are not taken the talent will stop coming. And that would be really bad for you organization. I'm sure that there will always be enough talent to field a good Cadets, but what's going to happen to the Crossmen? They would be the ones to end up not performing on Finals night because of The Cadets not pulling enough talent anymore.

This will be my first and last post to this site. I had heard about these forums but never paid much attention, as most of us don't coming from the design/production side of drum corps because frankly, it doesn't much matter what people think - it matters what people do.

However, I could not resist replying to "Hoppy's to do list" as it would appear the participant in question has his facts less than straight.

Program coordination - Always a group effort but I have to tell you, April (and I love her dearly) has never had much to do with the selection of the program, and she will tell you this herself if you ask her. All she wants is a color guard that spins together with as few flaws as possible.

Drill - Jeff Sacktig will always be a great drill writer and much respected in the business, he has been responsible for some of the greatest moments the Corps has had in recent years, (and Marc Sylvester will tell you that).

Colorguard - For the record: Jim Moore left the Corps after the "95 season and Keith Potter taught in "96 and "99 - that's it. In those interval years and from 2000 on the writers have included; Jonathan Schwartz, Travis Estler, Johnny Amos, Greg Lagola, Carol Abohatab, and Jeremy Huber, all pros in their own ways, but Cadets, as it would pay to remember, have always been driven by technique and execution rather than pure writing, which is why IMO you won't find another guard out there who can match them from that standpoint. Often times the writing (definitely some of the best in the business) has to get traded off for excellence. And for the record April doesn't write, she cleans. Now, please try to remember that in the days when Devils and Cadets traded colorguard trophies the guard score was not part of the sheets! It was judged seperately and almost as an IA caption, now the guard is viewed as part of the ensemble and the same criteria do not necessarily apply. The Cadets have had some wonderful colorguards in the past 8-10 years (as I'm sure many of you out there would attest to) but as we all know it comes down to personal choices and personal styles. And, regardless af what anyone may think about any particular Corps in any particular season it comes down to the kids!! As long as they are challenged to be their best and come away at the end of the season with a deep sense of personal accomplishment, what does any of this mean?

Jazz - Well, IMO, I like when a corps - any corps - moves outside of their comfort zone. What's troubling to me is that most of us are slaves to our habits and resistant to change. Sometimes I think we expect any given top 6 corps to simply give us what we expect of them - and accordingly I think they're judged against themselves, or at least some collective notion of what they're supposed to be. Move outside of that box and look out! But really, I would suggest that every couple of years we burn those idols and start over, no one will die I promise!

So...again, remember, it's about kids! They love doing what they're doing, if they didn't, they wouldn't be there! If you don't like a show...move on...it's really not that deep...

Has Hoppy seen your list? If not, please send it to him, I'm sure he would find it very interesting..

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This will be my first and last post to this site. I had heard about these forums but never paid much attention, as most of us don't coming from the design/production side of drum corps because frankly, it doesn't much matter what people think - it matters what people do.

If it doesn't matter what people think, then we fans can just go home and take our money with us, right?

I wonder if Chuck Naffier knows that people "from the design/production side" don't care about these forums? B)

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This will be my first and last post to this site. I had heard about these forums but never paid much attention, as most of us don't coming from the design/production side of drum corps because frankly, it doesn't much matter what people think - it matters what people do.

So...again, remember, it's about kids! They love doing what they're doing, if they didn't, they wouldn't be there! If you don't like a show...move on...it's really not that deep...

I've had it with this sort of viewpoint, this "holier-than-thou" look upon DCP/RAMD/anywhere that has an opinion contrary to conventional...or unconventional wisdom.

That's cute...your first and last post, eh? It's nice to see that design/production folks care so much about the paying customer. Perhaps if I and others stop funding you and your cohorts artistic masturbation all across DCI, you would care. Keep not paying attention...maybe next you can wonder where all the fans went.

And of course, the standard refrain of "about the kids". Hide behind them to rationalize your choices...or maybe, just maybe come on to DCP, etc and explain your programming choices, explain what the show is trying to accomplish and help the people that keep you in business every year figure out where you're coming from.

But that would be too easy, I suppose.

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I've had it with this sort of viewpoint, this "holier-than-thou" look upon DCP/RAMD/anywhere that has an opinion contrary to conventional...or unconventional wisdom.

That's cute...your first and last post, eh? It's nice to see that design/production folks care so much about the paying customer. Perhaps if I and others stop funding you and your cohorts artistic masturbation all across DCI, you would care. Keep not paying attention...maybe next you can wonder where all the fans went.

And of course, the standard refrain of "about the kids". Hide behind them to rationalize your choices...or maybe, just maybe come on to DCP, etc and explain your programming choices, explain what the show is trying to accomplish and help the people that keep you in business every year figure out where you're coming from.

But that would be too easy, I suppose.

w/Stp:

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