PhantomR Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 how does the argument of amplification spread into a thread meant to talk about a review? I think some of us are becoming more obbsesive than protective. ~>conner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 So my point is, you'd have to be blind to think that a show including narration wouldn't cause some controversy with a large number of fans. Everyone who is involved in an active corp knows about the rule change and the controversy behind it. So why go there? Why knowingly make a show that you know from the start will upset some of the fans, regardless if it's 60% or if its 10%, and cause controversy? None of this would be being discussed if they had choosen a more traditional show design. I know it. You know it. They know it. And to not see it coming is just plain silly. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Most people have no knowledge of places like DCP...they go to shows and are entertained. Will they all like every aspect of every show? No...which is how it has been since I started in 1964. Staffs make their design decisions on what they think is best for their corps. Sometimes it will cause controversy among the less adventuresome in the stands. That too has happened as far back as I can remember. Why play it safe? IMO that will lead to stagnation of the activity. I think there should ALWAYS be those looking to use the outer limits of the envelope. Not every corps will do so, of course, and some that do one year may not the next (BAC and Crown being prime examples). Cadets did in the past, have not recently, and yet this year their show is exploring those outer areas, and IMO it's great for them to do so. Do the staffs know about the furor they will cause here? I'm sure some do, along the lines of "Gee, I bet some folks on DCP will be up in arms over THIS thing we're doing". Hopefully they just ignore it and go about their business taking care of their members as best they can. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass Ablaze Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 (edited) ...Hopefully they just ignore it and go about their business taking care of their members as best they can.... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, I hope you're wrong. It would not be very smart to completely ignore their reviews. Criticism is often a good eye opener and can help them make improvements. I am not saying that taking out amplification will improve their score. It might. They may take it out, they may not. I doubt they will take it out but not even CONSIDERING it is just plain silly. Now I am sure that Kurt HAS considered it, albeit maybe only for a second but I know the thought has crossed his mind because I am sure he would have to weigh out the consequences and advantages too it. Edited July 14, 2005 by Brass Ablaze Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastiemeg Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 Amen, Mike! I'm so glad you posted that, it said exactly what I was thinking. I'm glad they took the direction they did, it shows that they're not afraid to be daring and fresh with their concepts. I would hate for this organization to keep putting out show after show after show of the same old thing that everyone else is doing. I'm happy that this is an ever-evolving activity, it makes going to the competitions fun and exciting ("I wonder how BD is going to perform tonight?" that kind of thing.) It keeps us on our toes, and as an audience member, that's a great feeling. Meg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass Ablaze Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 Amen, Mike! I'm so glad you posted that, it said exactly what I was thinking. I'm glad they took the direction they did, it shows that they're not afraid to be daring and fresh with their concepts. I would hate for this organization to keep putting out show after show after show of the same old thing that everyone else is doing. I'm happy that this is an ever-evolving activity, it makes going to the competitions fun and exciting ("I wonder how BD is going to perform tonight?" that kind of thing.) It keeps us on our toes, and as an audience member, that's a great feeling.Meg <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, it shows that "they're not afraid to be daring and fresh with their concepts" but they are also not afraid to slap some of their fans in the face. There are many many fans who are die hard on their convictions with topics such as narration. If you think that adding narration is a necessary step to make the shows fun and exciting, you are completely wrong. I saw the phantom show in Seattle and it was really great. They didn't use narration. Why can't you wonder how BD is going to do tonight with no narration in the activity? I sure can. Appairently you have not seen enough shows to realize that there is quite a lot of variables that can make a great show and narration is not needed to continue to make unique and great shows. Look at some of the shows that the top corps have done in the last 10 years. There has been TONS of new innovations that have made some really amazing shows without having to take the road of using narration to be "different". And in that respect, they are not really doing much different than Crown did last year. If they wanted to use amplification to do something really truely different, they should have used it in a totally different way. The 2002 Cavaliers was one of my favorite shows. It was just amazing. The judges agreed. The ideas they came up with in the drill and the way that the music fit with the drill was just amazing! It wasn't the most technically difficult stuff nor did they have to take a step in the direction of something such as narration. But the effect that it gave was beyond anything I have seen from a corp before. So what I am getting at is, YES, it can be done without taking the narration road to try and be different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Yes, it shows that "they're not afraid to be daring and fresh with their concepts" but they are also not afraid to slap some of their fans in the face. There are many many fans who are die hard on their convictions with topics such as narration. Why is it a "slap in the face"? Was it a slap in the face when the Cadets, Cavies, and Scouts came out with themed shows in 1971..."the day drum corps died" according to a t-shirt and Drum Corps News editor Dick Blake? Was it a slap in the face when Bayonne donned the banana unis in 1976? Old timers of the day were certainly up in arms...I was there...today they are considered one of the best corps of all time. BAC using bells in 69? Garfield almost getting kicked out of 1970 VFW's due to forming a Peace Sign? Were these slaps in the face, or just new ideas being tried out? IN fact, BAC was not permitted to use them at VFW's in Philly...I was at that show. RUINED their drumline and it's incredible show. If you think that adding narration is a necessary step to make the shows fun and exciting, you are completely wrong. I saw the phantom show in Seattle and it was really great. They didn't use narration. Why can't you wonder how BD is going to do tonight with no narration in the activity? I sure can. Appairently you have not seen enough shows to realize that there is quite a lot of variables that can make a great show and narration is not needed to continue to make unique and great shows. Well, I've been seeing shows since 1964. You make the point for me...yes, there are "quite a lot of variables that can make a great show"...in 2005 narration is one of them, as is singing, for the design teams that choose to use them. Automatically great? No, of course not. If used well? Absolutely. Crown in 2004 was one of my favorite shows of this century, amps, singing, narrating and all. But...so was 2003 Phantom, totally acoustic. The point is...there is no one way to do it. There are lots of ways to create exciting shows. And now, amps are included, if the corps chooses to use them. Of course they can also create great shows without them. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bawker Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 (edited) and to those hiding behind the DCA logo (what's that all about???) do you realize that Kurt Jull is the secret weapon behind Yokohama Inspires? Yup, his design... If you're referring to me...which I suppose you are...I don't "hide behind the DCA logo" other than to support it instead of DCI this year, based on what kind of program I like to see. However, since it seems any critcism of a corps in this thread now is going to be met by constructing straw man arguments about anonymous posting and not "fully supporting the activity", I'll get rid of the avatar. Of course, if your backhanded swipe at me is any indication, perhaps DCA isn't so different at all. Edited July 15, 2005 by bawker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZugZug Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 I didn't read all the comments and I don't know anyone in that corp but I saw the show and want to give my comments on what I saw. The Seattle Cascades show seemed very busy to me in terms of drill. A few spots in the show could use some drill changes to cover more of the field to make it cleaner looking. Horns were not bad but I did not like some of the arrangements. Song selection is good but the arrangements seemed too far off. I have mixed feelings on the use of amplification but I feel that in this case, it was used poorly. The talking was distracting, particularly in the tone that the person was using. He had almost too much excitement in his tone to the point of being very fakey. I agree with some others that the colors were a bit to modern. I don't feel the bright colors really fit the theme very well. When I think of the Wright brothers I don't think of bright colors, I think of earth tones, flight suits, and those funnly little brown hats with goggles and flaps. The show was well themed and overall interesting but the theme was clear enough without the narration. Thats just what I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SassyMama Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Actually the color palette for the times the show is based is Art Nouveau and Art Deco. Reference Gaudy in Barcelona for Nouveau, South Beach - Art Deco if you were to just go to the art history books and look at the colors. I would imagine that the Cascade organization also looked at how the guard uniforms would look under different light variences. Quite frankly over the past couple of years or so, this is the worst I have seen about people #####ing and arguing about something they aren't even involved in. This is not a show and event review any more, and the continuation of this thread should probably have gone to DCP community for further discussion as it has gotten entirely off topic. While I am not a fan of amplification, I certainly am not going to not support a corps for using it. The time to say something about it is not during the season but after it. Most of the shows are set. Come on folks, give these kids a break - don't bust down their morale, but build it up - no matter what corps they are from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMichael1230 Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 (edited) While I am not a fan of amplification, I certainly am not going to not support a corps for using it. The time to say something about it is not during the season but after it. Most of the shows are set.Come on folks, give these kids a break - don't bust down their morale, but build it up - no matter what corps they are from. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> See, that whats great about America. You can express YOUR opinion, I can disagree and express MY opinion, I have that right, as do many others. Just because your judgement tells you when and why to do something, others thoughts and opinions are just as valid and have every right to be expessed when they see fit, not when someone tells them too. Your reasoning for when and why to express thought about amplification can be construed as "silly" if somesone feels the need to, just like my post right now can be considered whacky, if someone wants to do so. Thats whats so geat about discussion on discussion boards, people arent always going to agree, but all have the right to post what they want, when they want. And as far as supporting or not supporting a corps?? A consumer has every right in the world when giving support, emotionally, and financially, to pull that support if they are not happy. Human beings are not blind sheep, I like to think they have free will and can be loyal to their own convictions instead of blindly supporting something they dont truly believe in, no ?? Its also quite sad and somewhat shifty your parting "shot" would include a mantra about "the kids" when in hundreds, literlally hundreds of threads here on DCP, its made quite clear any hostility, negativity, or ridicule is never aimed at said kids. <**> ~G~ Edited July 16, 2005 by GMichael1230 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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