Question....

[CrunchyTenor]

I'll be using lots of quotes, and making lots of responses, so bear with me. It's all part of a darn good discussion, I think.

DCIMonkey wrote: That's why I like it... Hoppy is not confined by this imaginary 11 1/2 minute box.

Imaginary? I think it's in the rules. A little hyping right before a corps' appearance, say as they're entering the field, is cool with me.

Glory wrote: And while we're at it, let's remove all the banners on finals night. Heck, no corp t-shirts either. Definitely forbid any pre- or post-show yells for any specific corps or corps member. Shoot, let's not have any fun at all!

Do all corps have an opportunity to place a banner in the back stands? Totally different concept.

Lurker wrote: I give the Cadets credit on this one. It's a concept that should be explored further by other corps.

Then let's look at the rules and level the playing field. Though I think if there were teasers going on for every corps over the course of the evening it would be REALLY distracting.

Michael wrote: Out of all the opinions you could have, this is certainly one of them! You are certainly entitled to it and I'm sure you can/will find others who agree with you. That said - I'm not one of them.

Fair enough!

RobRoy wrote: Many corps are peforming from the time they enter the gate until they leave. The way the enter the field can be part of the "show". Like when Madison made the Scout symbol that I can't spell. Or on the field warm-ups. Not judged, but intended to "enhance" the show. I think this is the same sort of thing, only wierder.

From the time they enter the gate is the key phrase here. I have no problem with fans hyping the corps right before they go on, and the corps hyping the fans. As long as it doesn't distract from the previous or following corps' performance.

Sam (84BDSop) wrote: Sorry, Garry....disagree with ya here...this is no different than the crowd going ape#### over the onfield warmup....that's njot part of the competitve program, either....yet it draws the crowd to the corps.

Hoppy just found a VERY unique way of doing it...props to him...a Hoppy idea I LIKE...it's ####### brilliant!

ALSO....show me the rule that would apply...she'd not in the defined field of competition, she;s not doing a judgted performance...she's creating ambience for the program...now, given that this may be a LITTLE before showtime, it's still a great idea.

The onfield warmup doesn't happenan hour before, which is more than a "LITTLE" before showtime. Creating ambience should happen when your corps is entering or leaving, not for an hour before.

George82 wrote: Gotta disagree with you there Garry. First of all it doesn't seem that you have been to a show where this has happened and you haven't experienced it firsthand. The girl wanders through the stands between performances and intermission (if there is one). Secondly, it's not done throughout the contest so there really is no distraction to performances happening down on the field.

This is meant to be interactive with the audience, not to be judged or penalized.

As far as you not being a "Cadet basher"......you obviously have a problem with the "single person spinning on retreats" and "the fire station sirens conveniently going off in Madison" (that was planned btw). This is not a "look at us" mindset as you put it. I applaud the Cadets and their staff for being different and pushing the envelope. Try opening your mind and enjoy what's happening not just in front of you for 11.5 minutes but also all around you.

You're right, I haven't been to a show to witness this. I did witness the fireworks during SCV's show in San Jose, and it was distracting. But the corps didn't plan it. It wasn't intentional.

Maybe you can explain the concept of the single person spinning? Or why it was necessary to have a fire station light up the trucks and turn on the sirens? Aren't electric lights and electronic sirens illegal then? Especially when they're not just outside the field and pit-box, but outside the stadium itself? And you should re-read what I said in the first paragraph. I'd have a problem with this if ANY corps was doing it. In this case it's the Cadets, so it's hard to leave them out of the equation. But if it were Phantom Regiment, or Santa Clara, I'd be just as vocal. Let's push the envelope within the rules. We all know it's led to rules changes in the past.

soonerjeff wrote: Got this off a post that Hop made yesterday on his blog (http://www.livejournal.com/users/yeaguy/):

QUOTE

DO you know that the lead character walks the stands, dressed as a school girl, for an hour or so before we go on?

ANYWAY, when the GE Brass judge was about 30 seconds into the opener he stopped and said ..

" Hey ... isn't that the girl that was walking the stands before. How is she in the show?"

FUNNY!!!!

Lately he has been talking about the judges not reacting or even recognizing the artistic performance (not technical performance) that the corps/kids are putting on. So he seemed pretty amped that one of the judges noticed the girl before the show and made the connection. (He explained the story behind the girl's early appearance about a month ago I think.)

I haven't seen the show yet, so I can't comment. I don't know how I'd feel honestly-- I understand the 'fun' that a unique idea like this brings, but I think I'd be a little bugged b/c she'd distract me from focusing on the corps that is about to take the field. Great idea from the Cadets' view, b/c by the middle of the show everyone will be anticipating their corps, but I like to give every corps an equal chance and attention.

So, the judges are noticing her? That would be contrary to another post in this thread. And if Hoppy is talking about the judges not reacting to the "artistic performance", maybe there's a problem with the design. (Key on maybe.)

I like Jeff's observation about "equal chance and attention" for all the corps.

Cop wrote: VK staff would send out beach-balls into the stands to get the crowd going as the corp walked into the stadium.

Same idea right?

Not really. The beach balls were thrown to the crowd by the pit members, and only as the corps was entering the field and warming up. They weren't out there an hour before, or between other corps or at intermission. Even VK had more respect for the other corps.

David (DrumCorpsFan) wrote: Corps have been "performing" before the gun for decades. This is not new. Look at Bayonne's entrance in 1980. How about Glassmen in 1996. Watch Madison or Phantom take the field and the line they form. For that matter, look at the Cadets block and Big George trying to recapture his youth (couldn't resist that one). How about the Cadets moving warm-up. There are more, but my point is made. Nobody had someone in the stands??? Wrong again. Bones makes his appearances. In 1986, Troopers had someone play a bugle call in the stands as they took the field. Should all these corps be judged from the minute we see them. How about the Scouts Pirate show? It was going on long after the corps left the field. That captain lay dead on the field while the next corps was warming up and was finally carried off by a pirate. Judge it? Mega overtime penalties then. What if someone anti-Cadets was doing this in order to get them penalized?

Nah, leave well enough alone.

Did Bayonne do this during, between or at intermission? No, it was their entrance to the field. When Madison marches a company front on to the field, then breaks into the Fleur de Lis, they don't do it until they are entering for their performance. When Regiment fans used to throw the rolls of paper at the end of their show, it was while their corps was on the field. This year, Regiment fans are encouraged to bring rain sticks to use while the corps enters the field. (They have some rain-makers of their own in the pit, but I guess they're not projecting. They had them in California.) When there's a 4 count tacet so SCV fans can yell, "VANGUARD!", it's during their show. Bones doesn't show up until Crossmen enter the field, and the guy that does it is a fan, not a corps member. Troopers' bugler fan was just that - a fan. Again, not a corps member, and not an hour before their performance.

If this character were to start at the top of the stands as Cadets were making their entrance, and interact on the way to the field, I'd be all over it. That would make sense to me. But an hour before?

There's also the effect of this discussion, and the buzz surrounding it. Will it have the effect of focusing more attention on her, and really creating a distraction?

At any rate, thanks for the comments. I appreciate the civility of responses. This is a good discussion.

Garry

Edited July 24, 2005 by CrunchyTenor

[RobRoy]

Garry,

I don' think it is detracting from other corps' performances. If it was, I'd agree with you, but I haven't heard an outcry from people who have been to the shows. I haven't seen them since June and can't remember if they had the girl doing this yet or not.

I'm with you on the solo spinner during retreat though. Don't know what the explanation was for it, but I found it at best to be tacky.

[Guest DrumCorpFan]

Nope--that was not planned or part of our show.  I don't know if it was a fan or an alumn, but that was not an unusual occurance back then, and more than just Finals night.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

True, in fact at Finals, a 2-7 alum was so upset that they took 13th to the Troopers 12th, he played Danny Boy while the Trooper alum was playing his bugle call.

[Guest DrumCorpFan]

Did Bayonne do this during, between or at intermission? No, it was their entrance to the field. When Madison marches a company front on to the field, then breaks into the Fleur de Lis, they don't do it until they are entering for their performance. When Regiment fans used to throw the rolls of paper at the end of their show, it was while their corps was on the field. This year, Regiment fans are encouraged to bring rain sticks to use while the corps enters the field. (They have some rain-makers of their own in the pit, but I guess they're not projecting. They had them in California.) When there's a 4 count tacet so SCV fans can yell, "VANGUARD!", it's during their show. Bones doesn't show up until Crossmen enter the field, and the guy that does it is a fan, not a corps member. Troopers' bugler fan was just that - a fan. Again, not a corps member, and not an hour before their performance.

If this character were to start at the top of the stands as Cadets were making their entrance, and interact on the way to the field, I'd be all over it. That would make sense to me. But an hour before?

There's also the effect of this discussion, and the buzz surrounding it. Will it have the effect of focusing more attention on her, and really creating a distraction?

At any rate, thanks for the comments. I appreciate the civility of responses. This is a good discussion.

Garry

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I accept your position in the examples I have listed. You did not respond to one, that of the pirate show in which the overthrown captain is laying on the field and finally carried off while the next corps was well into its warm-up. How do you feel about that one?

[Fievel]

I haven't seen it, and probably won't... but a good point was made: What if all corps were doing this? It would be quite a distractive mess.

[Nizerifin]

If all corps were doing it, it would no longer be original, and therefore, no one would do it (accept for the corps that just don't stop.) I don't see how she can distract you from a performance if she only walks around BEFORE the corps go on. Hoppy talked about it in one of his latest posts (the 22nd) addressing how it's just an attempt for continuity in the theme. How this ever turned into "I looked at her before the show, and totally missed all the other shows -- because of her!" Sheesh.

[byline]

Has Hopkins commented on this anywhere at all?

He's got a blog here: Hop's Blog

[^Michael^]

<snip for economy of bandwidth and space>

At any rate, thanks for the comments. I appreciate the civility of responses. This is a good discussion.

Garry

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll defend to the death your right to your opinions even though I do not agree with them. What I do agree with is your comment about the civility of responses in this thread. Nice to see! IMHO, this should be the example for all "discussions of different perspectives on DCP. Thank you Garry and others!

[byline]

Ok, I know I have heard this before, but can someone explain what happens with the fire station sirens?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here are a couple of RAMD threads which address it (you have to sift through the flames, but there is some worthwhile commentary mixed in there on what happened):

Cadets/fire trucks 1

Cadets/fire trucks 2

I didn't much care for the single person spinning at retreat, either . . . but that's just my opinion. I do feel like these things are stunts designed to draw attention to themselves. Not sure how I feel about the "schoolgirl wandering the stands" routine. I don't think it would be as obtrusive as the other two stunts, but I can't recall her doing that at the Evansville show, the only one I've been able to attend this year, so I can't really comment on it till I see it.

Having said that, I also agree with those who note that corps shows start before the corps enters the field, and there's a long history of that. Corps have always done things to intimidate and otherwise hype themselves and their image before entering the field, while they're entering it, and exiting it. That's a big part of many corps' mystique. So I can see the point that this is just another way for the Cadets to do that. I'm not sure I like it, but that doesn't mean it's some violation of the rules. If it were, then all the other things corps do before and after their shows would be rules violations, too.

Edited July 24, 2005 by byline

[AggiePhil]

She is looking for 1313 Mulberry St. (the address on the door).  This is, as I understand it, the address of the Holy Name Church in Garfield, NY. 

I don't think so. I looked on Yahoo Yellow Pages and the Holy Name Church isn't at that address. Several other people said that it come from The Adams Family show.