ssorrell Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 The Santa Clara Vanguard visual staff is beng told by the visual judges that (and I'm paraphrasing here) they are getting less credit for the product they have on the field (as of a few weeks ago) because they don't do enough dancing. The JUDGES are telling them they would have a higher score if the horns and drums danced more. (The other corps that are near SCV as of few weeks ago all have parts of their shows that are essentially dance features.) And we're supposed to believe this? Why? Yeah...I see Phantom's horns and drums dancing a lot. Or Cavies. Not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PR ROCKS Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 I agree, not that I think the poster would lie, but he may be mis-informed. I find it hard to believe that any of the DCI judges would be foolish enough to say something like that. I love SCV, but their music scores aren't that great either, as a matter of fact on 8/3 they scored a combined 26.10 in the visual captions and only 26.00 in the music captions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradrick Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 (edited) And we're supposed to believe this? Why?Yeah...I see Phantom's horns and drums dancing a lot. Or Cavies. Not. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Here's my response. I'm not trying to spark any controversy. Just want people to know some of "what is". - Currently, I don't consider Phantom or Cavies to be "near SCV" right now score-wise. I haven't even seen either of those two shows, so I'm not going to comment on whether or not their horns and drums dancing, and didn't mean to suggest that I was. - This information comes indirectly from SCV (I think they may have been comparing SCV to Blue Knights, Carolina Crown, and even Spirit of JSU who all have "dance features" in their shows.) I don't want to betray anyone's confidence by telling you what the SCV reaction has been to that. I just thought it would be helpful if the forum members knew that in a show partially based on war they have been told that a lack of dancing is hurting them, at least to some (probably immeasurable) degree. I feel it is relevant to the topic of "Is the 2005 SCV Underated" if the judges are essentially saying "There's a somewhat required element of dancing that you aren't doing that some of your competitors are." And once again, I am paraphrasing. Edited August 9, 2005 by bradrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradrick Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 I agree, not that I think the poster would lie, but he may be mis-informed. I find it hard to believe that any of the DCI judges would be foolish enough to say something like that. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> See my previous post... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssorrell Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Sorry...I don't mean to doubt you, but there's no way in the world I am going to believe that any of the judges, some of which I've known for years, are telling SCV that they need to dance more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlhiatt Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 I thought Star of Indiana 1993 was the most underrated show of all time. I won't get a chance to see SCV until Thursday so I'll reserve judgment until then. But I have been wondering why they're getting the scores they are. My initial guess was that they have a young corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arno0940 Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Being a former visual tech and have spent many a critiques with judges, I hope I can provide some insight. A judge would never say "you need more dancing". They might say, that the emotion that the music ensemble is creating at this point in the show needs some added visual movement to create an efffect or to connect with the audience. Added visuals or movement can mean many things....snappy horn visuals, a lunge, leg lift, creative upperbody movement or even dancing. Corps get rewarded on the score sheets, based on a criteria of "what they are doing, and how well they are doing it" If SCV isn't doing limited visual movements (outside from marching) this will effect their score....especially GE visual. I hope this has clarified a couple of things... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 You said what I was thinking when I read that part of this thread. I really don't think someone who is qualified to judge, who has gone through extensive training, will outright say what was accused. Infact, there is something in a lot of judge handbooks, that tells them that they are not to tell you "You need to do this" "You better do this" etc..etc.. they are there to provide criticism, and help you, but they do not write the show. I think in this case, the judges were giving advice and probably offered adding visual elements (lunges, plie, upper body movements, horn manuals, etc...etc)... Being a former visual tech and have spent many a critiques with judges, I hope I can provide some insight. A judge would never say "you need more dancing". They might say, that the emotion that the music ensemble is creating at this point in the show needs some added visual movement to create an efffect or to connect with the audience.Added visuals or movement can mean many things....snappy horn visuals, a lunge, leg lift, creative upperbody movement or even dancing. Corps get rewarded on the score sheets, based on a criteria of "what they are doing, and how well they are doing it" If SCV isn't doing limited visual movements (outside from marching) this will effect their score....especially GE visual. I hope this has clarified a couple of things... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssorrell Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 I hope this has clarified a couple of things... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah...thanks. After reading your post, I realized that the problem could be that maybe the poster paraphrased a bit too loosely. If SCV is to be compared to BK or Crown around them, then your comments make total sense. Crown has historically done body movement (not necessarily dance) to help get their intended emotions across. Perhaps a judge commented that those other corps are beating SCV in visual right now because they have more demand by doing such things while playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradrick Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 (edited) Yeah...thanks. After reading your post, I realized that the problem could be that maybe the poster paraphrased a bit too loosely. If SCV is to be compared to BK or Crown around them, then your comments make total sense. Crown has historically done body movement (not necessarily dance) to help get their intended emotions across. Perhaps a judge commented that those other corps are beating SCV in visual right now because they have more demand by doing such things while playing. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Maybe the word "dancing" isn't the best choice. (I've been away from corps for a while). The other corps that are in SCV's immediate vicinity score-wise (Carolina Crown, Blue Knights and even Spirit of JSU) ALL have parts of their show where the entire hornline (and maybe even drums) put the horns down on the field and do stuff that I think resembles dancing - but maybe it's called something else in drum corps these days. They do partnering and lots of full body movement without the horns. Even lay or roll all over the ground and do leg and arm stuff. The visual judges are apparently saying that unless SCV also does those types of things, they will not be competitive with the corps who do. Does that help? Edited August 5, 2005 by bradrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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