Drum corps, todays, yesterdays, you

[GMichael1230]

There is just too much generalization lately in all of these threads. The "forward thinkers" (again a generalization) telling the "old fogeys" (another generalization) to leave, the oldster telling the newbies their generation was better (Yet another generalization) .......some telling others that they are afraid of change, some telling others that all change is bad, all change is good....why, it can get real confusin and lead to a lot of conclusions being drawn, and some good people being labeled what they aren't about on BOTH sides.

All sides of debate are indeed healthy, productive and could lead to effective change...all opinions are valid and nobody should be afraid to post theirs for fear of ridicule..as long as it doesnt get personal, then some get personal back (guilty !!) ....what do we really know about each other ?? what we like/dislike ?? what our tolerance level is/was ? what about the new era is awesome/unacceptable...tolerable, able to be lived with...what about the past is missed ? Was awesome ?? Was too over the top...etc....etc......Lets help each other stop drawing the wrong conclusion and maybe see some common ground. I bet we all have a lot more in common than not, and its ok to disagree and still get along.

I first got involved with drum corps in the late 70's(1979) and marched from 79 - 83 and aged out in 1987. I have been a fan (ataic) of th activity since then attending every finals and as many shows as I can. I have numerous corps I call favorites and have a special place in my heart mainly for corps that did NOT make the top twelve (Valley Fever, Knights, Avant Garde, Defenders, Memphis Blues, Alliance...to name a ver small few.) My favorite corps of all time is the 27th Lancers.....losing them to this day still hurts, however, my favorite corps besides them are the Blue Devils nad Phantom Regiment......everyone else is tied for second.

I am a colorguard person, and also a drummer....I carried a xylophone, played in a pit, marched a rifle and also a flag. I never thought I would like dance when it was bceming dominant in the mid eighties, I loathed the solo-dancer that everyone seemed to have around 1985, and ensemble dancing without equipment still sometimes akes me scratch my head.

The things guards do today with their equipment is amazing..the evolution of the colorguard has been exciting, althogh I still wonder if basics are as important as they used to be and if clarity, precision and unity are just as practiced as we ued to do it.

I love the way movement is incorporated into todays guards. My two best examples of that are: 1991 Cadets, the last 30 seconds of their show, and 1999 Blue Devils, the last minute of their show, the perfect marriage if eqipment work and movement I have ever seen.

I love todays drills (Are they called that anymore?) The drill actually died, Ithink on that hot August night in 1983 in Miami Fl. when Cadets pffocialy closed the door on drum corps and took us into a new era of show design and performance. It took a few years for the rest to cath up and when they did, Garfield took another leap in show design(1987) Not until Stars emergence in the early nineties did the door officialy slam and yet another new era of drum corps get hearlded in.....You can see Star of Indianas influence in just about every coprs on the field today....Glassmen, Crown, Blue Knights.....

They seemed to start the movement off, but now everyone is doing it, although the Cavaliers of the 2000's seem to be the next era in show design.

I love the music that is being played today, it still has me running to the sites like Amazon.com and B&N.com and purchasing/discovering new sounds and composers...My vast classical library was built in thanks to being curios about whothe heck Sir William Walton was...and I never looked back. Stan Kenton, Johnny Richards, Sammy Nestico, Sainy Saens, Hindemith...etc...etc....All unknowns until I was introduced to them by drum corps.

The changes I have seen in my twent-six years as a fan, performer, spectator have been numerous. Pretty much all have been favorable and acceptable by me.

I remember it used to be two seasons and it started in early June, usually the big news came from the DCM evaluation day and the buzz was flying mouth to mouth , or until we received our DCW issues in the mail....Bayonne usually opened the season with theor "Tournament of stars" and the first tour hit the ground running, then there were regional championships, and finally a second tour culminating with championships in mid-August. I miss those ong tours and numerous circuit shows but I enjoy some of the new formats that are around today like the Allentown, two night extravaganza, the Murfreesboro show, and the Indy, San Antonio line-ups....

The pit evolved and came to pass as I became involved in drum corps. I liked the idea......carry a Xylophone and you would too b**bs ..I like seeing the equipment on the front sidelines (or in the case of 94 Phantom Regiment, wherever you wanna put it) and watching the crews hurry on and off.....

G bugles were what I grew up with, when the change came to Bb, I was concerned, gave it a listen, then decided it really didnt alter my love of the activity that much. Boy, did I get my head handed to me on RAMD.......It seems that the Bb bugles are coming into their own and quite frankly, not being a brass man, I cant really tel the true difference, but I do respect others that can,and feel bad for them if they cant "adapt" or no longer enjoy their drum corps.

Shows were shortened and I was puzzled, I adapted, it didnt matter.

Corps after corps folded, the 83-86 era was hard as many, many favorites disappeared and eventualy the top twenty five went to the top twenty one, and now, there only what, 24 ?? touring Division one corps ??? However, thats still a lot of entertainment value and Quarterfinals, to me, is the best show of the year.

Ticket prices...well, i have my stub from 81 Finals....$6 LOL LOL....I am looking at my ticket for finals night this year $125.......I am on the 48 yard line so I really cant complain....things change, roll with the punches.

I guess, I am coming to what I call my "tolerance level" When amplification was passed, I groaned, I whined (still am, right Mike D ?? ) and I tried to approach the situation with an open mind.....In reality, the amplification of the pit equipment is tolerable and does not deter me from enjoying the activity, or to the same xtent supporting it and looking frward to it every year. I didnt think I would ever say that, but it is the truth.......Amplified voice however, I can not at this point roll with this punch. It takes away from the main focus of what drum and bugle orps is: Drums and bugles making music with colorguard accompanying it. I dont want to be told something I cant figure out for myself, I dont want to be led to where to look, what to see and waht to think. I draw my own conclusions. Is it bad ?? no, its just not what I choose to enjoy or support....theres a place for everything, and I dont feel voice , through a microphone taking away precious time when I can hear a bugle or a drum, has a place in a drum corps show.

I dont mind the occasional ensemble, un-mic'd singing ala' 2000 BAC...I actually liked that. But on the flip side, four singers taking the place of a small brass ensemble doesnt do it for me.

Im hoping this particular change will phase out, and quick, before I lose interest and find other things to occupy my time...do I wanna "leave" ...you tell me ? after giving you some brief background...nobody wants to leave, but Im sure nobody wants to support something they no longer relate to either........

Where does it end ? whats next ?? When will drum and bugle corps "change" so much that it is no longer recognozable and its identity is challenged with too many ideas and not enough time to absorb and reflect ???

Sorry so long.......

~G~

Edited August 4, 2005 by GMichael1230

[^Michael^]

<snip for the sake of bandwidth>

Sorry so long.......

~G~

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

~G~ - don't pass out when you read this! :P

That was one of the most excellent posts I've read on DCP in quite some time. Regardless of which position on the issues one respectively takes, you (I) have to admire the sincerity, coherence, and civility of ~G~'s post!

My kudos and congrats to you, sir. More like this one please!

Sincerely,

Michael Terry

P.S. - I know you've vowed no further responses to my posts and I respect that. No response is expected or needed to this. I just wanted to publicly recognize a quality offering!

[bawker]

G:

You gotta decide where your personal "line in the sand" is. For some, it's amps....others will say woodwinds, for some it was Bb. Some will support the activity even when it becomes marching band.

Is DCI still good after all these changes? Sure.

Will it be with the changes in the future (woodwinds, electronics)? Probably so.

However, sometimes drum corps isn't "drum corps" to people after a certain bit of the parameters of it get changed. That's when you have to think about what you want out of the activity. And, yes, folks, I'm advising you to be selfish here. It's your dollar, your entertainment, and you should always strive to put that money towards what you want, not by spending money on something that doesn't give you joy anymore.

If singing and narration (etc.) don't phase you, then I think that's far out. But, if they do raise yuor hackles as a fan, and you feel like you're supporting something just because you have in the past... and its become rote to do so, then maybe its time to re-evaluate how you look at spending your dollars.

I fell in love with DCA after this weekend, as it was what I was looking for...as a fan, as a music enthusiast, and as a supporter of the activity. Based on what I grew up seeing and marching, it's closer to what I like and can relate to.

Does that mean I hate the juniors?

Nope. Although I sure disagree with how things are being done, but well, that and 50 cents will get you the Daily News.

Folks, don't spend money for something you don't like or have reservations about. Drum corps is a great thing, but if you don't get what you want out of it, there are other things: wine, art, movies, golf....everything! There's pipe bands, Div II/III, DCA, and all kinds of musical activities out there.

As the Digital Underground said:

Dowhatchalike :P

edit: special bonus link to Digitial Underground videos, since now I've got the "Humpty Dance" in my head.

http://music.yahoo.com/ar-312935-videos--Digital-Underground

Edited August 4, 2005 by bawker

[RichCranford82]

Where does it end ? whats next ?? When will drum and bugle corps "change" so much that it is no longer recognozable and its idientity is challenged with too many ideas and not enough time to absorb and reflect ???

~G~

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well ~G~, that seems to be the question of the day, doesn't it? As someone who started in the world of Drum Corps the same time as you (don't forget, we did march together in '82 after all), I have seen all the changes you mentioned over the last 25 years. I can honestly say that whatever they may have been and whether or not I cared for them (still not a big fan of the over-the-top dancing for example), not for one minute did it seem as though Drum Corps was losing what made it unique. Until amplified voice. Like I've said many times before I won't pretend that anyone does or should care what my opinion of the current state of Corps is, I will say that for the first time I don't feel that "connection" to the activity that I always did from the first time I ever heard a show, for me that was hearing the 1960 Caballeros at VFW's on a Fleetwood record my Dad had (which I still have by the way). For those who seem to be "tired" of hearing those of us that have loved this activity for a very long time and want us to "go away", how can you not understand that after spending such a large portion of one's life being so passionate about something that it's not so easy to sit back and say "Oh well, I guess change is inevitable so that's that" when said changes produce a product that no longer "excites" the way it always had before? It's not sour grapes from "old-timers" as has been suggested, just confusion over some decision making and dare I say a bit of sadness. One more thing ~G~, I remember back in '82 at Bayonne's Tourn/Stars 2 all you wanted to do was help Phantom set-up and how upset you were when they first told you could and then backed out for whatever reason. Take it from me folks, there isn't a person alive who should ever question ~G~'s loyalty, commitment and absolute love for the Drum Corps activity.

[apoch003]

I call it DCI instead of "Drum and Bugle Corps" anymore. Simply because it isn't about drums and bugles. Sure, there ARE drums, but no bugles. There are those that rightfully argue this point. And that's okay.

Drums have evolved as well, the shoulder strap is gone, replaced by fiberglass harnesses. And the development of the pit over marching "tones".

Color guard is actually what gets my goat the most (until this year that is).

Where is the flag presentation? What's with all the dance interpretation? What happened to skill with sabre and rifle? How can a corps with no less than THREE DROPS of equipment STILL win a world championship?

Then came this year. Here comes an "in my day..."

I remember Magic of Orlando playing the Beverly hills cop theme, and they had a speaker on the field with a synthesizer. THEY GOT PENALIZED for it.

Rightfully so, in my opinion.

Now DCI wants to make electrics on the field a standard. And there's my line in the sand. Since you can turn up the volume with an amp, why bother playing any louder? In fact, you would only NEED four horns on the field playing into a mic.

That being said, I still enjoy the shows. I still pay to go to the local shows. But BIG BUSINESS DCI needs to back off!

Drum corps is ALL ABOUT TRADITION, not vegas style slutty dancing and amplification.

Bring back retreats! Take the shows back to 13 1/2 minutes! Let's see a little LESS of the hypnotic drill styles. I'd like to hear more shows like PR2005, with music I can relate to! ENTERTAIN US AGAIN.

[CODI]

I hate to say this but "DCI" has become nothing but a 6 to 8 week band camp for the upcoming high school and college football seaon.

Enough said!!!!!!

CODI

[TexasPRfan]

Very well put, G & Rich. Many of my sentiments, exactly. And I marched in the early nineties. The amped voice is indeed a hard one to get past, and I hope it is a fad that dies. The amped pit I can live with. And I still love this activity with all my heart. The summer is both so slow it seems like it takes forever for finals to get here, and at the same time, it's over in what seems like a heartbeat. Just dont take the brass & percussion power, and precision that made me fall in love with it the first place, and I'll be a happy man.

Harvey

[PhantomR]

I actually like this topic.

Alright,

I have come to accept that most people will not change on there standings with amps. I personally could care less whether they stay or go. I dont like it when people become stereotypical about a corps if they use amps, but that's the persons opinion, and I respect it.

I like almost everything. I LOVE drum corps. As some of the oldER folks on this site lose interest, I gain it. Shows constantly impress me, and I can't yet imagine what it takes to make shows so perfect. I can't wait till I become apart of something so important.

I dislike the fact that the drum corps community has a hard time getting along with eachother.

I just love drum corps.. that's all there is to it. I could care less about amplification. I couldn't even tell at either of the shows I have been to.

~>conner

[Lance]

In reality, the amplification of the pit equipment is tolerable and does not deter me from enjoying the activity, or to the same xtent supporting it and looking frward to it every year. I didnt think I would ever say that, but it is the truth.......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Who are you?

:P

[Jeff Ream]

i have come to feel that amped pits is ok, as long as judging doesnt hide from obvious balance issues.

i first remember seeing a band sing thru an amp in 1980. I was 11. i thought it sucked.

i first saw a drum corps sing thru an amp in 2004. I was 35 and i thought it sucked.

if the amped vocal stuff was gone i'd go back in a heartbeat. I can tolerate every other change in drum corps but this.

and by the way, while i can live with amplified pits, i saw a DCA corps use pieces of plexiglass under the keyboards saturday night in North arolina. technique was excellent...no one was beating the #### out of the keyboards and projection to the press box where i was seated was excellent.

and it cost 1/1000th of an amp and mics.