Scerpella Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 The real question is why despite a changeover in leadership and instructional staff, Madison is ONCE AGAIN doing the August Fade? 7/24 San Antonio TX...............8/4..................Net Gain Cavies 91.775........................94.850.............3.075 Cadets 91.150........................96.500.............5.35 BD 89.775...............................92.600.............2.825 Scouts 88.550.........................90.250.............1.70 PR 87.800............................... 93.650.............5.85 BCoats 87.350.........................91.200.............3.850 Scouts the big losers, Phantom the big winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OtherDaryl Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Maybe it's not enough of Carmen and too much playing and marching !!! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> After much anticipation of seeing this show in Indy, and excitement at the combination of Madison and Bizet, I was greatly disappointed by the product. Not by the execution of the folks on the field, which was outstanding, but by the design of the program itself. I was expecting a far more traditional Carmen and what I got was West Side Story in a season we were otherwise free of any blatant West Side Story programs. So, for me, more Carmen and less West Side Story would be the answer. Probably not a popular opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterfitter Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 ssorrell,I'll try to clarify. You are correct. I purposely mention aspects of competition and use the aforementioned terms "out of gas" because these are words and measuring sticks that others are using (and oh, by the way, if you hadn’t noticed, they do keep score). My motivations though are much more in line with the poster just previous to you. There's always been a philosophy in the Madison camp (at least I believe it’s still present) that if we do what we do best, ala, a Madisonesque show that all is well! The crowd has always been the biggest barometer by which Madison and others measure. There are other aspects though that began to weaken within the halls of Madison; technique, execution and design to mention a few. I believe that over the past several seasons that these areas have begun to be addressed. Again, I'm simply addressing those disappointed individuals who think that every time Madison takes the field for a new season that THIS IS IT! This is the show for the ages! My feeling from the very early on was and is that this Madison program is not up to Madison defined standards (at least past standards) and actually seemed like a huge departure! If this needs further clarification, I'm happy to indulge but I hope this helps. Sincerely, Madsop75 <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You sound more like one of the past members from the Scott Stewart era that has difficulty accepting the corps for it's accomplishments after Mr. Stewart. I'd be amused to see what the corps would think/say to you if you had the time to make such comments in person to them. The Men of Madison might be as disappointed in you as you appear to be in them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwillis35 Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Hey Folks, Madison is kicking butt this year. I LOVE their show. It is amazing and fun. I am sure the members are pushing themselves hard and cleaning the show for finals. Please do not assume that just because the scores are lower than what you want, or that their placement is not what you want, that the corps is not performing well or that they are peaked out. They are simply getting beat by other great drums corps, but only 4 othes. How is this bad? Sometimes our competitive instincts can change our perception of a show, even when the show is a good one and the members are performing very well. You must separate the two. Jonathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madsop75 Posted August 5, 2005 Author Share Posted August 5, 2005 I'm not sure what y'all's REAL complaint is. Is it that Madison hasn't found the formula to compete for the top prize? Or is it that Madison of 2005 isn't doing the shows of the Madison of another era?The distinction is important because if it's the latter you want, the former isn't possible. HH <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Glory, And I suppose 2 former championships and consistently in the top 6 was a fluke or aberration? Here is where the inaccuracies or misconceptions begin to surface. It is assumed that if "today" Madison does their type of show that somehow equates to nothing visual, poor execution, no guard etc. It’s assumed that the Madison of old couldn’t win today. The Madison of old was not only about performance but of doing "everything" with excellence! Here in lies where Madison of several years ago lost their way but now seems to have righted the ship. As an alumni, I want the "full" package back and then to answer your question, yes, I want the latter and I know the "former" is absolutely possible! Sincerely, Madsop75 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterfitter Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 'Seems to have righted the ship'??? I guess as an alum you really don't realize how much that entailed...I'd say the corps placement in Indy speaks for itself...as to the excellence comment...again, go right ahead and tell the guys that they are not striving for that - as well as the staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scerpella Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 'Seems to have righted the ship'??? I guess as an alum you really don't realize how much that entailed...I'd say the corps placement in Indy speaks for itself...as to the excellence comment...again, go right ahead and tell the guys that they are not striving for that - as well as the staff. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ummm did you misread Madsops comments? He was characterizing a knock on Madison that had existed for about the last 6 years, not agreeing with it. His comments IMO centered around the idea that maybe despite the excellence of the execution and performance, the show maybe isnt a top three show? And as we all know for sometime now show concept has figured very greatly into who walks away with the title. I have to agree with many here that despite the across the board rise in the captions for Scouts this year, the show just may not be a top three show yet. What has many of us alumni ticked, including myself, is how they can trade high scores for a significaof part of the season and now be down by six points from the top? The answer to me is the manipulation fo the subjective captions to begin to set up the top 12 for how they will finish. Madison cant have gone 10 days with only a 1.70 point improvement, but in order to have the thing lay out like expected, Madison has to take it on the chin to be fit into where they are "supposed" to be. Its not a conspiracy, because in prior years it has happened to other corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecoats88 Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 or maybe like I posted earlier it has less to do with some preconceived placements for the top 12 and the fact that corps with harder shows than madison have finally got theirs as clean as madisons. and maybe the slow down in point increases is due to madison having maxed out their show and others are still pushing theirs to their limit. which will happen if a show isn't as difficult as others around you. you can only clean a show so much before your scores will level off if you've reached the maximum the show can get for itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madsop75 Posted August 5, 2005 Author Share Posted August 5, 2005 'Seems to have righted the ship'??? I guess as an alum you really don't realize how much that entailed...I'd say the corps placement in Indy speaks for itself...as to the excellence comment...again, go right ahead and tell the guys that they are not striving for that - as well as the staff. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Masterfitter, Either you didn’t read my original post or I have failed to explain my points. And where in the world you find me calling into question the desire or "want to" by the 05' Scouts again leaves me wondering what your smoking?? Did you not read my compliments to the contrary?? Did you not read my comments as to there successes this year and how improvement is rampant?? Do you not have the ability to make the distinction between "having the talent but not having the show?" The overriding statement is this, Big Improvements! They’ve got the Horses!, They just aint got the show that so many hoped and believed they had this year. It's good but it didn’t deliver the home run that many were expecting. That’s It! How you quantify that into a personal attack toward the guys in the corps is beyond me. Now you can continue on and believe in some further conspiracy theory on my part and that I some how want to attack my own or as you state earlier, drag Scott Stewart into this (which is proof again that you couldn’t have read my earlier posts). And yes, unless you mean something other then my involvement over the past several very hard years, I am very acquainted as to "what it took" to get back to where the boys are today. Sincerely, Madsop75 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glory Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 It’s assumed that the Madison of old couldn’t win today. It wouldn't even be close. And that would be a proper result. Don't get me wrong. The Madison championships and top-six placements were well deserved. Heck, Madison was the corp that sold me on drum corps forever when y'all put the silent counts in Stars & Stripes (was it '76?). And one of my all-time favorite drum corps moments was 1993 finals when the sixth-place Scouts played their hearts out in a driving rain. It was hot, wet and cool all at once. Emotion to burn. Classic Madison. But that was the past. Glorius as it was, none of that nor 1995 is good enough to win today because the other corps are better than Madison was. Trying to be the Madison of the early 90s or late 80s or mid-70s today is like asking a contestant in today's Miss Universe pageant to wear hair, makeup and clothes (as well as natural body parts!) from the 70s. She might win, but there will be plenty of other great-looking women who'll look even better in today's fashions. Changing the subject slightly, if this Madison show were scoring around 95, would we be having this discussion at all? HH 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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