Finals Placement as an Overall Goal

[GMichael1230]

THANK YOU SCV! GOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

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Dude, you cant respond to the topic at hand ?? You are getting to be more and more like spam every day.

Now, ON topic:

I feel that its not a good idea to have a top five goal as something to measure success. You can not control the corps around you...say your show in (example) 2006 could win any other year and all memebers have the best summer of their lives, but six other corps perform at a higher level, this means, essentialy.you would have failed to meet the requirements of your job description.

No, this isnt a good idea.

~G~

[glory]

As a senior manager in a major corporation, I'm well acquainted with this problem. You need to set objective criteria as goals for employees. Yet those same objective criteria often seem to trivialize the work you seek. When writing job descriptions or setting up bonus grids, I try understand that things such as this are meant to be the outlines of the job, not the substance of the job itself. I understand also that the key is not so much the specific goals but my ability to manage expectations and achievement.

I can't speak for the SCV board's thinking or motivation. I can say what they did seems pretty ordinary. The only question I might have asked had I been on that board is this: Is setting the goal at top 12 asking too little of the prospective director of a corps more accustomed to top 5?

HH

[Phantombari1]

From a goal setting perspective I don't think it is out of line to have making the top 12 or the top 6 for that matter, a goal for the new director. It is his job to do whatever it takes to get into that type of position. You set different goals for different parts of the organization. And not every individual in the organization will have the same goals.

From a managerial perspective their job is to make make sure everyone does their job at maximum effectiveness, from a caption head it may be to be in the top 3, from a marching member it may be to be the best marching member in the corp. By putting together everyone's goals the corps ulitimate goal should be reached.

It is possible to reach your goals and still finish second. That doesn't mean failure!!! Measurable progress is what ultimately brings about success in the long run!

[tubamann]

Competitive success? I can see the want to remain financially viable..BUT..

Finals placement is the objective ajuduication of 9 individuals, all with opinions and human frailties, on one given night. Period

Here is the bottom line. Did the kids learn something? Are they better for having been in the corps? Did the corps serve them? Did the corps strive to be the best it could be?

Many things can determine how well a corps could or will do. Many of them are not in the control of any corps staff.

Think about it.

Edited August 30, 2005 by tubamann

[ssorrell]

Competitive success? I can see the want to remain financially viable..BUT..

Finals placement is the objective ajuduication of 9 individuals, all with opinions and human frailties, on one given night. Period

Here is the bottom line.  Did the kids learn something?  Are they better for having been in the corps?  Did the corps serve them?  Did the corps strive to be the best it could be?

Many things can determine how well a corps could or will do.  Many of them are not in the control of any corps staff.

Think about it.

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You're preaching to the choir.

Yes, for the members, drum corps should be about the things you've mentioned. But the staff is PAID to get the corps to a certain degree of competitiveness. It's their JOB to design and teach a show that will allow the corps competitive success. At the same time, they promote respect, self discipline, and all the other wonderful traits that drum corps teach their members. But the competitive aspect IS a BIG part of all staff's responsibilities.

[tubamann]

You're preaching to the choir. 

Yes, for the members, drum corps should be about the things you've mentioned.  But the staff is PAID to get the corps to a certain degree of competitiveness.  It's their JOB to design and teach a show that will allow the corps competitive success.  At the same time, they promote respect, self discipline, and all the other wonderful traits that drum corps teach their members.  But the competitive aspect IS a BIG part of all staff's responsibilities.

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Many good points, Steve!

You are right..we are a competitive actvity..but can a staff control how good the other teams are? Lets say that their corps is cleaner, more talented and has a better show, but falls in placement because corps B really stepped it up this year..

I would expect and paid staff to strive for competitive excellence, but the mission of any corps (at least on the DCI level) including SCV, is to be a positive and educational experience for youth.

[abgiles]

it's been a long time since i marched, but when i was in the vanguard, the goal was first place. we did not always achieve that goal, but it was the goal nonetheless. in working to achieve that goal, we did indeed learn a great deal, we were better for having been in the corps, and all of those other wonderful things about drum corps. the fact remains, though, that our goal was to win. gail talked about winning; staff talked about winning; the members talked about winning. i applaud the corps for setting high goals and would actually prefer to see the mark set a little higher.

[madscout96]

Many good points, Steve!

You are right..we are a competitive actvity..but can a staff control how good the other teams are?  Lets say that their corps is cleaner, more talented and has a better show, but falls in placement because corps B really stepped it up this year..

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No, you can't control what other corps do. But you can from year to year "keep up with the Jones'". What I mean is, if you do one type of program and achieve success with your members and accomplish alot from an educational standpoint, awesome! How you do competitively with that program shouldn't effect your educational accomplishments. But in planning for the next year, you certainly have to evaluate what you could have done to BE more competitive than you were while still achieving those same educational goals. Learn from your mistakes, and then be even more prepared for the next season.

What you don't want to do if you want to stay competetive, IMO, is become stagnant year to year and say "well we're going to do it this way because we've always done it this way, it's always worked for us, I don't want to go in THIS direction or THAT... " etc. Because then other corps who are willing to change and branch out may end up doing things better (or worse, but ultimately they'll learn what works and what doesn't) and beating you. Then your ranking year to year starts to decline, which causes a decline in money, auditionees, etc.

I would expect and paid staff to strive for competitive excellence, but the mission of any corps (at least on the DCI level) including SCV, is to be a positive and educational experience for youth.

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Can the same educational goals for the marching members be achieved even if their ranking declines from year to year? Of course! They can still bust their butts, do the absolute best they can, perform, leave it all out there on the field, and even entertain their audiences! But I mean, if you can keep up with the changing activity year to year, then do it!

What if Jeff Fiedler had stuck to his guns and not implemented anything in his corps that he didn't vote for? The Cavaliers would not be tastefully amping their pit (by "tastefully" I mean no stupid amped vocals), and they may still be playing on G horns. As much as I'd like to believe it, I don't think they'd be near the top from year to year if they had stayed a vintage 1999 drum corps.

[madscout96]

it's been a long time since i marched, but when i was in the vanguard, the goal was first place.  we did not always achieve that goal, but it was the goal nonetheless.  in working to achieve that goal, we did indeed learn a great deal, we were better for having been in the corps, and all of those other wonderful things about drum corps.  the fact remains, though, that our goal was to win.  gail talked about winning; staff talked about winning; the members talked about winning.  i applaud the corps for setting high goals and would actually prefer to see the mark set a little higher.

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When exactly did you march? I'm interested to know because perhaps more corps back in your era were "out there to win"? I just get the impression that because of the judging system now vs. 20 years ago (not sure if that's you), more staffs are taking the burden of worrying about scores and placements off of the members' shoulders.

[glory]

You are right..we are a competitive actvity..but can a staff control how good the other teams are?

The competition is always beyond your control. That's the nature of all competition - whether drum corps or widgets. With that given, the only question is whether the objective is a fair one. I'd say that top 12 is more than fair given SCV's compentencies. Top five, to my mind, is still fair though surely not so easy.

GE, one of the most admired companies in the world, sets as a goal for all its business units that they be No. 1 or No. 2 in their categories. Guess what? Nearly all GE units are No. 1 or No. 2. Why? Well, it's not because they make being No. 3 the goal.

HH