Dot vs Form

[HornlineDiva]

We used a technique I think I would like to use in the future. We marched dot during visual, and form during ensemble, and during all shows. That way, you practice your dots during visual, and in ensemble, you practice guiding - meaning, if you're going to what you think is your dot, but clearly that won't be with the form, you surrender to the form. IF people work on memorizing their dots outside of rehearsal, it's a very effective way to practice.

Using solely the dot system would be nice, but most marching bands and corps don't have that calibur of marchers. They're just not going to remember "1.25 inside the 45, 8.5 behind the front hash, interval = 2.5"..... but the Cavies seem to prove that if you do have the talent, it's the best way to go.

In my college band, we march form. And I was always bewildered on the field, because the forms were SO insanely different. It's a very confusing and frustrating procedure. I am home from 2 seasons of drum corps, and just today I was very confused as to where to go, because it's never the same place.

I really don't think any drum corps use form that much.... I think dot is the standard. In marching bands, I know there are a lot that primarily use form. It's considered a bad thing when people go to their dots, because they don't know any different.

btw, I just watched Cavies 2000 for the first time - that's niagra - and I think it's one of the most effective drills I've ever seen. elegant and smooth and #### clean. Truly one of my top 5 favorite shows.

[OMello1]

Each system has strengths and weaknesses. The system itself is not so much the issue, but whether or not the culture of the organization is able to support whatever philosophy the visual staff decides is best for their goals. I've known of several corps that have tried to adopt the dot system The Cavaliers have been using successfully for over 20 years, and have failed each time.

It is more than a system...it is a philosophy...and one that many (most) people don't understand intimately, and don't 'buy in' to. If every member of a corps, every staff person (NOT just the visual staff), every management person, every cook, driver and volunteer doesn't buy the philosophy and support it, it will fail.

Dots work at Cavaliers because the philosophy of the organization is about individual responsibility--from their daily duties, to how they perform their show, to doing their schoolwork and handling their 'real' lives. Every level of the organization supports what they do on the field, from a philisophical standpoint. Is it any wonder why they have been so successful over the years???

So, to any group or person considering going to a dot system...think again. Do you have the FULL support of the organization, and more than a "yeah, I think that will be neat" sort of support. Are they willing to change the nature of the organization to support this new philosophy? If not, then don't do it...

M

[OMello1]

We used a technique I think I would like to use in the future. We marched dot during visual, and form during ensemble, and during all shows. That way, you practice your dots during visual, and in ensemble, you practice guiding - meaning, if you're going to what you think is your dot, but clearly that won't be with the form, you surrender to the form. IF people work on memorizing their dots outside of rehearsal, it's a very effective way to practice.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So, you are effectively rehearsing two different shows. Who really has that kind of time to waste?

With dots (PURE dots...nobody uses pure dots in DCI except Cavaliers), the members are asked to perform the same show or same rep each and every time. They don't have to worry about Jimmy in the red shirt missing the yardline checkpoint AGAIN and having to adjust the stepsize and path to fix HIS mistake. But, on the next rep, he hits it, so the adjustment is not needed.

Where is the consistancy?

M

[HornlineDiva]

But the more you practice dot, the less you need to adjust during ensemble. By the end of the summer, they're pretty much the same. And I also forgot to add that for death camp, plus the first week or two of tour, we went for dot all the time.... we didn't start practicing guiding until we were comfortable with where we were going.

I do not come from a drum corps that has a ton of marching talent. Using only dot would never have worked, and using only form is certainly a bad idea, so what are you suggesting? I'm not being obstinate... I honestly want to know. I like talking about visual stuff. I'm a geek like that.

[Phantom&Phitch]

what do judges notice more...

lets use an arc for example

1) an arc where everyone is in it except for 1 person who missed their dot,

or

2) an arc that might not be where the drill writers wrote it, but its still an arc..

[BlooooContra]

Dots encourage people to be proactive. Form shouldn't even be MENTIONED until mid/late July. Drill is too fast moving and difficult these days to simply be guiding the form all the time. Since my first year in 2000 to my ageout in 2005 I was a 100% dot monger. I never guided form. (and now that I'm aged out, I can say it without worrying lol) :) I'm not going to try and sound overly cocky, but from an ensemble vis standpoint, my name was almost never heard from the tower. Reason? Dots. Why did the Bluecoats rally at the end of this year and get clean? Steph Furniss came in and heavily stressed dots. Why did Cavaliers 02 happen from a drill standpoint? Dots.

If you're on your dot, you won't be more than an inch or so out of the form. Everyone just has to be held accountable for knowing each dot perfectly and hitting each dot perfectly each time. Then instead of guiding a form, the form will happen by coincidence because everyone is on their dots. Any Cavaliers out there want to back me up?

[ZSDAvenger]

Both systems have been utilized successfully in the past, so I think they are both worth using.

My gripe with guiding is that if you have a block form that is moving or something, and one person in a line is off, the whole line is supposed to shift with them, and now, instead of having one person out of line, the whole line is shifted a few steps from where it should be, making a terrible-looking form.

Why not just have that one person be out of line?

Why should I be accountable for other peoples' mistakes?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

oh dont be silly....the good corps that utilize form over dot also preach that if one person is wrong, you let him be wrong by himself and dress through the error!

[OMello1]

what do judges notice more...

lets use an arc for example

1) an arc where everyone is in it except for 1 person who missed their dot,

or

2) an arc that might not be where the drill writers wrote it, but its still an arc..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

An error is still an error, be it in a dot system or a form system (or a combination of both). One system does not beget errors more than the other. A kid in a form system has just as much chance to be out of the form as does one in a dot system. The error will be noticable in either system.

Does it take a certain type of corps or member to make a dot system work? Yes. Is a dot system something that any group who has the willingness to take it on should try? Definately not. I think a dot system is harder the make work (for groups who have not been doing it for 20 years)...but when it does, it is unstopable.

M

[BorisTS]

Neither system works unless everyone commits to it. If your corps uses form, and you're doing a company front that's supposed to hit on the hash, let's say it hits half a step in front. No big deal, unless one guy decides that he's going to the hash anyway.

My corps used mostly guiding to the form, although I think in practice a lot of corps use a little bit of both (in many forms, we'd go to our left-right coordinate but adjust a little front-back to make a diagonal or whatever.)

As for doing it one way during half of the day and another in the other half, that seems like a huge waste. I could see switching over the course of the season as the corps gets better, I suppose. And as for "Nobody is going to remember all of their dots," are you serious? What are you people doing during rehearsal? Like I said, my corps used mostly guiding and we still knew that. You have to-- how are you going to guide to a 2 by 2 diagonal if you don't know that's what it's supposed to be?

[Phantom&Phitch]

judges see forms.... not dots..