Troopers

[Trevor]

Very true my friend.....

[Becky]

I'm not completely sure, but didn't Michael Cesario re-do the Troopers uniform back in the 1987-ish time frame when he was a consultant for them? That was certainly under Mr. Jones' direction.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Michael Cesario did help with the guard's uniform change in 1987. The rest of the corps was in the same uniform from the recent previous years. The next set of new uniforms for the corps was in 1989, and was based on a previous version, i believe from the 60s. By that point (i.e. after '85-'87) Cesario had moved on to Phantom, not to return until the 1996 uniform pat mentions.

[Kansan]

I was thinking the exact same thing. Somebody made a bad decision there.

I can understand why they wanted to stay in G, but to buy an entirely new hornline in G that they probably won't be able to sell in a few years? Where was the thinking in that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, I think they will be able to find a buyer for the G Bugles with no problem. There are several new Senior Units forming all over the place. Many of the members for these new units are former Junior Corps members from the bygone years.

[Becky]

As to location...

For the example of Salt lake and flights etc, Boston is incredibly far and expensive to fly into from everywhere else in the country except for the Northeast. The Crusaders don't seem to have a problem. How inexpensive and easy is it to fly into Madison or Rockford? It's not. You go to O'hare and drive 2 hours to Rockford and 4 to Madison.

As for the area, I think there's plenty of talent in the area. I grew up in Cheyenne and went on to be lead trumpet, drill instructor and trumpet section leader at Northwestern (as a non music major). The other 3 1st trumpets from my high school-one ended up as lead for the top lab band at UNC Greeley, and the other lead for the Marine jazz band. The other was mormon and started his family. :) BTW my education was excellent as well-I did well at NU with straight As my first year and went on to their medical school. I still use Mr. Krysl's mathematic methods to this day.

What about the talent in the area today? What about the thriving Wyoming All State High School Band (http://www.whsasmb.com/)? I saw them in the Rose Bowl parade a year or two ago and Bush/Cheney inaugeration-not bad. For little rehearsal time. There isn't enough talent in the state itself? Come on.

There are also major universities in that area with strong college programs: University of Wyoming, Wyoming's 8 community colleges, CSU, Northern Colorado, BYU, University of Utah, Boise State, Montana schools, South Dakota schools, North Dakota schools, etc.

Let me give you another example about the area-I'm an emergency doc. The hospital in Cheyenne, which is a city of 50K (70K with surrounding small towns) sees 27K a year. Those people are not all from Cheyenne. The have catchment from Northern Colorado and western Nebraska-they estimate their catchment area to be 250K which matches their ER volume. I know less detail about the Casper hospital, but I do know they're ER is busier. A 50K city that sees up to 30K a year? Those patients aren't all from casper-once again they have a large catchment area.

When I marched we had camps at Univ of Wyo in Laramie-gorgeous facilities with use of their field house in the winter which was awesome. We had camps in Denver. Then for every days we went up to Casper. How many corps have camps in OTHER NONAJOINING STATES (Boston, BD, Bluecoats) and then center in at the home turf for all days. How many corps want seclusion during all days to get the job done (Cavaliers go all the way out to the corn fields of NIU for drill camps and all days)-what better place than in the cool mountains of Wyoming.

Look, don't encourage the Troopers to shoot themselves in the foot. That state loves them, actually knows who they are. Believe me-over the years as I've looked at jobs there I put Troopers on my resume-hospital board members talk to me about the corps. I bet half the population of Wyoming who was alive in 1970 knew the Troopers won the national championship. This state cares about its kids, supports youth activity, and frankly is running a huge surplus from good planning with mineral rights funds and the new energy boom. With a former corps director in the Govenor's office, there should be some grants some where. If they're going to move, go to Cheyenne-only 90 miles from the Denver airport, and within 45 minutes of 3 major univerisites (UWyo-Laramie, CSU-Ft Collins, UNC-Greeley).

Look, from 1957-1987 when Jones was corps director the corps was always full (maybe a little less the first few years but always over 100 after that), whether they were 20th or 2nd. And everyone was from Casper until 1972. You mean to tell me Casper was bigger in the 60s (no) and had more talent (no)? Okay, corps if different today. Could the talent of the corps from the 70s and 80s during Jones' tenure match any top 12 corps this year? Absolutely.

There's a lot more this than location.

Thanks for listening/reading.

[MikeD]

Oh, I think they will be able to find a buyer for the G Bugles with no problem. There are several new Senior Units forming all over the place.  Many of the members for these new units are former Junior Corps members from the bygone years.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe an alumni corps....

DCA field corps can also use multi-key now, so I'm not sure if I were one of them I'd purchase G horns in this day and age.

Mike

[bscontra]

I love the troppers and there Traditions

I marched a corps that is rich in Tradition

and to many of the corps alumni I marched

the off or not so good years of the corps

I dont think that We did very well and the reason

there where there at now is because of the people

like me that marched many years and kept the faith

in the corps

I used to live in Douglas Wy for 3 years when I was very young

Trooper were the first corps I saw if I did not move to wisconsin would of probally marched there

keep the hope and kick butt recruting and praticing

[arrangerx]

As to location...

For the example of Salt lake and flights etc, Boston is incredibly far and expensive to fly into from everywhere else in the country except for the Northeast. The Crusaders don't seem to have a problem. How inexpensive and easy is it to fly into Madison or Rockford? It's not. You go to O'hare and drive 2 hours to Rockford and 4 to Madison.

As for the area, I think there's plenty of talent in the area. I grew up in Cheyenne and went on to be lead trumpet, drill instructor and trumpet section leader at Northwestern (as a non music major). The other 3 1st trumpets from my high school-one ended up as lead for the top lab band at UNC Greeley, and the other lead for the Marine jazz band. The other was mormon and started his family. :) BTW my education was excellent as well-I did well at NU with straight As my first year and went on to their medical school. I still use Mr. Krysl's mathematic methods to this day.

What about the talent in the area today? What about the thriving Wyoming All State High School Band (http://www.whsasmb.com/)? I saw them in the Rose Bowl parade a year or two ago and Bush/Cheney inaugeration-not bad. For little rehearsal time. There isn't enough talent in the state itself? Come on.

There are also major universities in that area with strong college programs: University of Wyoming, Wyoming's 8 community colleges, CSU, Northern Colorado, BYU, University of Utah, Boise State, Montana schools, South Dakota schools, North Dakota schools, etc.

Let me give you another example about the area-I'm an emergency doc. The hospital in Cheyenne, which is a city of 50K (70K with surrounding small towns) sees 27K a year. Those people are not all from Cheyenne. The have catchment from Northern Colorado and western Nebraska-they estimate their catchment area to be 250K which matches their ER volume. I know less detail about the Casper hospital, but I do know they're ER is busier. A 50K city that sees up to 30K a year? Those patients aren't all from casper-once again they have a large catchment area.

When I marched we had camps at Univ of Wyo in Laramie-gorgeous facilities with use of their field house in the winter which was awesome. We had camps in Denver. Then for every days we went up to Casper. How many corps have camps in OTHER NONAJOINING STATES (Boston, BD, Bluecoats) and then center in at the home turf for all days. How many corps want seclusion during all days to get the job done (Cavaliers go all the way out to the corn fields of NIU for drill camps and all days)-what better place than in the cool mountains of Wyoming.

Look, don't encourage the Troopers to shoot themselves in the foot. That state loves them, actually knows who they are. Believe me-over the years as I've looked at jobs there I put Troopers on my resume-hospital board members talk to me about the corps. I bet half the population of Wyoming who was alive in 1970 knew the Troopers won the national championship. This state cares about its kids, supports youth activity, and frankly is running a huge surplus from good planning with mineral rights funds and the new energy boom. With a former corps director in the Govenor's office, there should be some grants some where. If they're going to move, go to Cheyenne-only 90 miles from the Denver airport, and within 45 minutes of 3 major univerisites (UWyo-Laramie, CSU-Ft Collins, UNC-Greeley).

Look, from 1957-1987 when Jones was corps director the corps was always full (maybe a little less the first few years but always over 100 after that), whether they were 20th or 2nd. And everyone was from Casper until 1972. You mean to tell me Casper was bigger in the 60s (no) and had more talent (no)? Okay, corps if different today. Could the talent of the corps from the 70s and 80s during Jones' tenure match any top 12 corps this year? Absolutely.

There's a lot more this than location.

Thanks for listening/reading.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmmm. . .

Phantom and Madison both practice in Texas, Boston practices in Florida. Crown and Bluecoats practice in Texas. Capital Regiment practices in Texas, and the Colts are about to. The Troopers are invisible to the kids they need. . . no exposure at any BOA events. Little exposure in-state. Even when the corps was allowed to stay in Wyoming most of the summer and then go to Nationals, much of the corps was from California. . . and people wonder why the Troopers have been a feeder unit to Blue Devils and Santa Clara.

Rockford and Madison both have connections from O'Hare via United and American Airlines.

The Troopers long ago lost the ability to get the college communities' attention. You marched under Jim Jones. Let's just say that any access he had due to reputation went away with him. I write halftime shows on occasion for CSU. Steve Moore is the head of the instrumental band department and marching band. He is the former Spirit of Atlanta drill writer (1981). If he's not sending kids to drum corps, what does that say about the expected quality of organization and communication? Professionalism is needed before quality individuals will sign their summers away on a regular basis.

There will always be the mavericks. . . the exceptions. . . but quality programs are not built on exceptions.

Even if you took every brass player from the Wyoming All-State band, you wouldn't have a full hornline. And. . . none of them are in the corps now. . . because the experience and treatment (and communication) they get musically is superior to an experience with a struggling drum corps.

I am not trying to paint a negative, hopeless picture.

I am saying that the Troopers need to make themselves and ATTRACTIVE destination point, or suffer the fate of many before who could not, or would not acclimate to modern needs.

Moving to a location with people and band programs would be a start. Laramie? Cheyenne? Sure. . . go for it. . . but Casper ain't the place.

We'll see in this next year if the organization has what it takes to move forward. If this year doesn't see dramatic results, the Troopers will be relegated to a "historical interest" item. . . a glorious chapter of yesteryear in Drum Corps.

I do what I can to help them. . . now they have to help themselves. Inertia is a terrible thing.

Just sayin's'all. . .

Chuck Naffier

[Becky]

Hmmm. . .

Phantom and Madison both practice in Texas, Boston practices in Florida.  Crown and Bluecoats practice in Texas.  Capital Regiment practices in Texas, and the Colts are about to.  The Troopers are invisible to the kids they need. . . no exposure at any BOA events.  Little exposure in-state.

There lies the problem. There are kids there. Gotta tap into them.

Even when the corps was allowed to stay in Wyoming most of the summer and then go to Nationals, much of the corps was from California. . . and people wonder why the Troopers have been a feeder unit to Blue Devils and Santa Clara.

The Trooper kids for the last few years have gone to BD because the staff just before you were teaching BDB and now BD.

Rockford and Madison both have connections from O'Hare via United and American Airlines.

Yes they have airports. They are more expensive to fly in to. Casper has an airport too. It is more expensive to fly in to. A quick search shows that the price between Dallas/OHare and Dallas/Denver is about the same price. If the location is Dallas/Madison or Dallas/Casper the price is the same. If the location is Dallas/Rockford or Dallas/Casper, Rockford's $100 more.

The Troopers long ago lost the ability to get the college communities' attention.  You marched under Jim Jones.  Let's just say that any access he had due to reputation went away with him.  I write halftime shows on occasion for CSU.  Steve Moore is the head of the instrumental band department and marching band.  He is the former Spirit of Atlanta drill writer (1981).  If he's not sending kids to drum corps, what does that say about the expected quality of organization and communication?  Professionalism is needed before quality individuals will sign their summers away on a regular basis. 

Agreed. And there was more to Jones than reputation. You mention his professionalism which I strive to emulate to this day. He was also the best teacher I ever had. And I've had a lot. He could teach anyone how to march. And he taught us about life.

There will always be the mavericks. . . the exceptions. . . but quality programs are not built on exceptions.

Not sure what you mean by this. Is the maverick/exception Jones? I would argue the highest quality drum corps ARE built on the mavericks. The George Hopkins, Gayle Royers, Sal Salas' of the world. We need more of them. The maverick-businessman is missing in DCI.

Even if you took every brass player from the Wyoming All-State band, you wouldn't have a full hornline. 

You'd have the same number of brass you had this year. And they would have been the core to build around all winter. And how many of those winds would make great brass players you groom over the next 5 years. They live in Wyoming-there's little else to do than get ready for camp! BTW, how many Wyoming brass players were there this summer?

And. . . none of them are in the corps now. . . because the experience and treatment (and communication) they get musically is superior to an experience with a struggling drum corps.

I am not trying to paint a negative, hopeless picture. 

I am saying that the Troopers need to make themselves and ATTRACTIVE destination point, or suffer the fate of many before who could not, or would not acclimate to modern needs.

Agreed

Moving to a location with people and band programs would be a start.  Laramie?  Cheyenne?  Sure. . . go for it. . . but Casper ain't the place.

We'll see in this next year if the organization has what it takes to move forward.  If this year doesn't see dramatic results, the Troopers will be relegated to a "historical interest" item. . . a glorious chapter of yesteryear in Drum Corps.

Agreed the corps needs to improve. But I have the feeling they'll survive, whoever teaches them.

I do what I can to help them. . . now they have to help themselves.  Inertia is a terrible thing.

Just sayin's'all. . .

Chuck Naffier

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And I'd like to take this moment to thank Chuck and all the staff for their hard work this year.

I vote yes for Bb horns. I vote for an entertaining show, and for excellence on and off the field. Those are the traditions of the Troopers.

Edited September 22, 2005 by Becky

[ColtContra]

Hmmm. . .

Phantom and Madison both practice in Texas, Boston practices in Florida.  Crown and Bluecoats practice in Texas.  Capital Regiment practices in Texas, and the Colts are about to. 

Chuck Naffier

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Except theres one problem...The Colts aren't going to practice in Texas...We have a couple of indoor facilities that can fit a football field inside it if we need to use them...In fact we do use them for learning drill in the spring...One is in Wisconsin and the other is in Illionois...Both are within an hour drive of Dubuque...So that puts an end to that...Now as for the Troopers moving...Denver is out of the question...If I were to go to Denver and audition for a corps.(and this is meant in no way to offend the Troopers orginization because they will always have my respect)and their were two corps there I'm gonna go for the one that finished in the top 12...Just my two cents...But yeah...I'd still dig the troopers if they went to Bb.

[AnaheimAlumni]

I thought the Troopers horns sounded great in Denver and I hope they continue to play G bugles. For their size they stood up to the rest of the competition very well. I thought they were the only corps that resembled a Drum and Bugle Corps in their horn sound and performance. If they had 60-70 bugles on the field every year things would be very different in Casper. The fact is what is holding them back is that they are The Troopers. IMO, their name and style is not "cool enough" for todays kids and therefore they aren't drawing enough of the better horn players and of course don't score as well. They need to get away from the western themed music. It's not "hip enough" for the judges and kind of pigeon holes them as underdogs. It shouldn't matter to the judges what they are playing but the truth is it does.

My guess is if any of their members are good enough to make one of the top corps, they bolt and leave The Troopers. Unfortunately like too many of the other corps past and present they've become another feeder corps for the top 12-15.