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Why do people think G = "Bugles"????


Guest GeorgeD

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BUT - (back to the topic - sense this is turning into a G/Bb thread) - why do people say G horns are bugles and Bb horns aren't when G doesn't makes something a bugle (or not) IMO

Honestly George, I'm not sure.

I guess it's just always been the "assumption" that a bugle has to be in "G"

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accordin to a dictionary i use for one of my music classes. Definition 2: A generic term for brass instruments. Def. 1: A valveless brass instrument that plays the notes of the over tone series. So depending on which one u use, either A) we havn't been playing bugles since we added valves.. or A, its just a traditional name for brass instruments used in Drum Corps, reguardless of Key or # of Valves being used. Take ur pick...

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George:

The problem is that most people do not understand the base difference between bugles and trumpets......the tubing style and architecture. That is why everyone assumes that "Gs" are bugles since they are keyed differently from the Bb Trumpets (which are by far the most common used in the educational systems today. Therefore, most people see Bb and think "Trumpet" and anything else is "Bugle". Just my thoughts.

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It's more than likely just an ingrained response. For so long drum corps was associated with G and band with Bb. Give it a while, things will change. Plus it doesn't help when marchers from the late 90's forward refer to the horns as trumpets and tubas instead of sopranos and contras.

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George:

You offer a fascinating argument that deserves to be explored further. Might you or anyone else be able to come up with the facts of what other keys drum corps "bugles" used to be in, when we adopted "G" as our "home key," and (this one fascinates me the most) if anyone back "then" complained that moving to the key of "G" turned the instruments into something "less" than "bugles." My heavens, that would be fun thing to throw out in the "Fanfare" column.

Michael,

Jeff Mitchell in particular has posted some great stuff on this over the years in here and in RAMD.

He'd be a great place to start.

Mike

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George:

    You offer a fascinating argument that deserves to be explored further. Might you or anyone else be able to come up with the facts of what other keys drum corps "bugles" used to be in, when we adopted "G" as our "home key," and (this one fascinates me the most) if anyone back "then" complained that moving to the key of "G" turned the instruments into something "less" than "bugles." My heavens, that would be fun thing to throw out in the "Fanfare" column.

    I've got to check this out in Steve Vickers' wonderful new "History of Drum Corps" book. (Someone just gave me one as a gift, and I can only say "wow." If you folks don't have one yet, treat yourself for Christmas. It's quite comprehensive and a real treat. Check out the Drum Corps World website for ordering information.)

    Anyone up to the task? (Of course, you would be credited until the cows come home.)

    And incidentelly, this is my first new post with my new custom avatar, courtesy of the aforementioned George. (Now don't all go running to him. I was a particularly desparate and helpless/hopeless case.)

Mike,

The key of the American military bugle as G, with a slide that pulled to F, was set in 1892 when the US Regulation Bugle was adopted. Prior to this US bugles were commonly in Bb or F. This was done to play with bands. Eb and C were also employed in other nations. The US Regulation Bugle is actually a field trumpet. It was common to use field trumpets and bugles to relay commands in battle. The difference in timbre alerted either the infantry or calvary to act.

The earliest rules of the American Legion that I have found date to 1929 and make no mention of key. While it is assumed that most corps played G bugles, fifes and Bb bugles were part of the scene. The rules restricted bugles to one key, prohibited valves, and no instrument could be pitched two octaves below the soprano.

The first rule modification was made to allow bugles in two keys. This was result of seeing French and Italian bugle corps with Bersag horns in Paris during the AL convention of 1927. A valve that lowered the instrument a fourth was added or corps bought crooks that lengthened the instrument. I say bugles were in two keys because the valve was not allowed to move and parts were written for the overtone series in G or D. There were many published arrangements for the bugle in G and D during the 1930's. Still after addition of the valve, there was no restriciton on key, other than a limit of two.

After the valve was allowed to move, late 1940's or early 1950's the restriction was placed on key, limiting drum corps to G and G only. This was done when a C bass horn appeared in the USA and an Eb bass in Canada. I believe the restriction was made to prevent the attempt to get around the two octave rule which prohibited a bass voice in the choir. Later in 1962, when the first contrabass bugle appeared, the American Legion refused to allow it and actually defined a limit on the length of bugles, making the contrabass too long.

So the short of the matter was an adoption of G for the US bugle in 1892 and enforcement by the AL and VFW sometime in the mid-1950's.

I will update my bugle site this winter.

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I would agree with EKBari on this one...I believe that it IS an ingrained response with no real reason as to why 'G' horns are bugles. It's one of those answers....''because it has always been this way''

regardless...I think in someways it is just 'tradition' to be in the key of G and be a drum corps. things are changing and more and more corps will go to Bb....and then someone will say

wow, your horn is in G? you are old! hehehe I was told that at a SVC rehersal for the Christman parade 2 years ago when I brought my 2 value bari. but I guess I am one of the old ones...I love my 'G' bugle :lol:

Kimela

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Perhaps someone could comment on this, but here is my ASSUMPTION of the differences. I haven't checked my data here, so please comment.

The bugle, even in its 3 valve state, is designed differently than any other valved instrument (sop to keyed trumpets). It's bore size and taper in the bell make it more suited for PROJECTION than other trumpets. It's intonation difficulties are inhearent to the design. In my experience, this is not the case with C, Bb, Eb trumpets. Projection was very noticable to me at DI quarters. I sat almost at pressbox level on the 45 and projection hit a wall at PR. Cavs quality of sound and intonation was amazing, thusly it carried, but not everyone has the staff or talent of that particular hornline. To me, this was the advantage for smaller corps using G's, and why I think large hornlines who stay have a more impactful sound. Perhaps this impactful sound is what needs to be left behind or evolved from, but its what got me into the activity.

Anyway, I don't really have any firm facts about this so chim in.

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