Bluecoats

[raphael18]

I'm not trying to bash the corps, I wanted to make a point out of saying that I do enjoy them, but that I just don't consider them consistantly as a top tier ensemble. For example, I would choose to listen to the bluecoat's ballad from 2002 over the Cadets rendition from this past season any day. I am hardly the kind of person that puts everything on a number, just my opinnion - I see where some people would disagree with me, but that's cool. It would suck if everyone was the same.

Edited January 6, 2006 by raphael18

[Elmo Blatch]

More like the new CROSSMEN .

they seem to have borrowed there Identity for a few years.

lets hope BONES ges it back.

He he he!

Do you mean that the Bluecoats are like the Crossmen or that more people like the Crossmen? For the Bluecoats to be more like the Crossmen, they would have pull a 2002 Madison. Unless you are saying that the Crossmen this year are emulating the Bluecoats, a la 1999...

Elmo Blatch

[monoemono]

Let me say that I am a 'coats fan, but no, I did not take them seriously up until now, and even now they have a LOT to prove before I consider them elite. To me, they are a great program, on the cusp of greatness. However, they don't have that attitude yet...it is the little things that make a corps great, things like clean shoes and polished helmets, things that the Bluecoats have yet to embrace.

What?!?!?!

I'm not even sure how to respond to that....clean shoes? Polished helmets? What the #### are you talking about?

This is one of the silliest things I have EVER read here.

Poor little ragamuffin Bluecoats. If only they'd learn to keep their little faces clean and shoes tidy like all the big boys and real men and women of DCI...then maybe their GE would go up a point or two...

When I was in the corps, we were a first class group with first class everything, better and newer equipment, trucks, unis, that some of the "big boy" corps this thread has referenced.

The real reason Coats didn't place higher, from MY seat at Gillette, was that they needed to clean a few more feet.

And I don't mean their little shooozies needed polishing.

I look at it this way--Bluecoats have been in finals every year but one since first making it in 1987. If you compare them to other corps that have been hot since then (Glassmen, Boston, CCrown, Blue Knights), they have been to finals more consistently than these groups. Crossmen is another, and they have a deeper history than Coats, but they're on a downswing right now. (BTW, it's no mean feat to make DCI finals 17 out of the last 18 years.)

I think Coats has as good a chance to make a run as any of these, and better than some. I think the key for them is to get the drill squeaky clean. The difficulty is higher now, could be harder still (see Cadets and Cavies) they sound great, they just need to eek some points out of that visual score.

[tubaman1321]

and for the record, i don't really consider madison to be one of the "top" corps anymore... they have as much to prove as bluecoats in my mind.

madison has fallen and returned how much more do they need to prove

[liebot]

Bluecoats are top 5. The only way Blue is ever going to get on that magical little list is to win at least twice, then win a third time within another 5 or 6 years. Ken Fanti says it best, it's "the Rodney Dangerfield of drum corps."

SCV totally tanked this year. Are many people still considering them one of the top corps? You betcha. I absolutely love the Vanguard. I want to see them take another championship one day. Are they a top corps right now? No. The past is the past. If I were talking about top 5 in 2000, you can bet I'd mention Boston, no matter their history. The Crusaders earned that spot that year, thus earning the respect that comes along with it. Same goes for 99 Glassmen, etc.

Sorry, but making the top 6 (or five even) does not make you a top corps. You have to prove that you can "hang with the big boys" for at least two or 3 years before you can be considered an upper-tier competitor. Who do I consider the top tier right now? Cadets, Cavies, Phantom, BD, and SCV. "But SCV tanked this year!!!!" you say. Yeah, well the same thing about a single year not determining a corps reputation works the opposite way, too. If SCV doesn't break back into the top 6 in 2006, then I'll pull them off my list.

Madison's been too far back for too long (the last time they placed in the top 6 was 99) and Coats just haven't been there long enough for them to be considered an upper-tier corps. Retain membership, staff, and innovation for a couple of more years and you'll be playing with the big boys.

As for the comment about the TOC (not sure if that was you or the other Coats' vet), that's just completely ridiculous. The TOC was set out from the very beginning to be a "little vacation" as you called it for the active corps that had won a DCI championship. Seeing as how membership in the TOC corps would've had to have been contingent upon being able to stay an extra week or two afterwards, DCI had to set the schedule relatively early (I think it was March or April). So if you want to play the "Well we were the better corps than them" card, I'm pretty sure DCI would've chosen Boston because of their 03 placement (and their past history in the top 6) instead of Bluecoats.

And Raphael18, you're just completely ridiculous. Every corps in the top 12 takes immense pride in the cleanliness of their equipment and their shoes. BAC looks sharper than any corps in DCI when it comes to little things like that.

[Phantom&Phitch]

Its all about staying power people... longevity

IF SCV returns to the top 5 next year, they will still be considered a 'big dog' who just had a bad year, it they keep falling, then they wont.

Madison and Bluecoats are coming from the back of the pack, if they stay here for a while, then they'll earn their rights as Big Dogs.

1 season does not create a reputation.

[Carl306]

Was there this much talk about Glassmen, Boston, Blue Knights, and Crossmen when they were placing in the top 6?

[nero14]

Bitter, huh? Do you presume that the majority of California drum corps fans would have preferred to have Bluecoats rather than Madison? As I stated previously, Madison is an icon and people love 'em, regardless of what stage of history they're in. Madison is an icon. Bluecoats are not an icon yet. The program consisted of past champions. Get over it.

i "presume" that the lower placing corps should not regularly receive more DCI-given opportunities than corps that score higher than they do, based on championship(s) won 18 years ago... i apologize that that sounds silly to me... i can tell that preference all adds up just fine in your head, and kudos to you for that. i wont even say that the bluecoats should have been that corps to go to the TOC even though it would have made more sense to me than madison... Boston deserved to go even those two tenths of a point more than blue did... and so true that it consisted of champions,.. but you know, you and i both know that the program was pushed as if they were currently the best 6 corps in DCI... if that was your first show, you might even come away with the impression that they were the only 6 corps that mattered, the only 6 corps worthy of any attention... that all other corps were somehow on a lower plane of existence... and that just isnt the case.

Secondly, i hardly see the relevance in stating what you think the majority of California fans would have preferred... if they had preferred Spirit over Madison because they had an amazing show in 1980, that would have had about the same merit as your proposal of their preferences... and i wont quantify that. Are the scouts an Icon?... yep, no argument there- i love to listen to 95 and 96 when i go run- but they are an icon who has been consistently bested on the field of competition by the bluecoats the last 5 years... and what do you call a group who consistently (being the key word there) beats an icon? apparently to you call them not that big of a deal... and call people who disagree with you bitter, or tell them to "get over it"... and thats your rightful opinion, so keep 'em comming. but you know... i still disagree with you.

and i heart you too rubble... good solo by the way! :)

Edited January 6, 2006 by nero14

[bandman28]

First, when you mention the number of championships - you really have to look at how many times Regiment came in second there - they earned that "best corps to never win" status through year after year of pain-staking effort and heart-break.

Let me say that I am a 'coats fan, but no, I did not take them seriously up until now, and even now they have a LOT to prove before I consider them elite. To me, they are a great program, on the cusp of greatness. However, they don't have that attitude yet...it is the little things that make a corps great, things like clean shoes and polished helmets, things that the Bluecoats have yet to embrace.

As the membership age gets higher, and the talent continues to bolster, the corps will rise, but they can't get respect by asking for it, it is earned over years of blood, sweat, and tears. Madison earned it, and yes, the corps tripped itself up some for a while, but it wasn't that long ago that they were a mainstay in the top 6. You know you're corps is a top level group, when people expect you to be in the top, like scv, and don't question whether you'll even be in finals from year to year.

Again, let me express that I really enjoy the shows, and the people in the corps, and associated with it, are some of the friendliest in the activity. They are doing the right things, and are quickly growing into a powerhouse corps...as long as they can hold on to it for a siginificant number of seasons, and not a year or two here and there.

imho

I'm dead serious -- and to be honest, I am MUCH more generous than most. Being great has a lot to do with how you behave off the field, and those DETAILS.

I never said they aren't great people, and very classy, BUT they are missing that next step. When you see them in the parking lot - look at their shoes and I bet you see scuff marks, same with their helmets...that's just a sign of respect for yourself and your corps that I don't see from them, but is exhibited by the "top" corps.

and for the record, i don't really consider madison to be one of the "top" corps anymore... they have as much to prove as bluecoats in my mind.

madison has fallen and returned how much more do they need to prove

first off, I am a Bluecoat allumni and I can garentee how much time goes into proper care off uniforms and equipment. Even if you did see a scuff on a shoe, do you think there is a judge sitting up in the press box with a pair of binoculars looking at everyone's feet saying "hey, lower that visual score! The third mellophone from the right has a scuff on her left shoe!" This is the most utterly ridiculas thing I have heard in a long time.

Now let's talk about behavior on and off the field. I have always found the bluecoats to be a class act both in performance and in warm up. As I understand it, if you go back in time and think about. Based on this theroy, Boston would have never made finals, let alone top 6 finishes. Boston is now a class act but it hasn't always been that way.

How can you honestly sit back and say that the bluecoats don't have any respect for themselves or their organization. The bluecoats have some of the highest number of auditions in DCI. Those kids busted their ##### to make it and they proud as ####.

Yes Madison has fallen and improved greatly. Since 2001 they have yet to prove they are better then Bluecoats on finals night when it really counts. So why is it such a stretch to think of Bluecoats as elite? ####, I consider Madison elite.

Bluecoats have had a slow and mythodical rise to elite greatness. What do Bluecoats have to prove? They have been consistant finalist since 1987, (minus 1999) It's not like they are the new kids on the block here. The Corps plays musically and the drill designs are among the top in the activity, There is much detailing as to the coordination of elements and musical and visual effect.

I'll have to check a score sheet and the box for rewarding the shoes and hats, if it weren't for that #### scuff on a shoe or a smudge on a helmet, Coats just might have taken Blue Devils, Why weren't all the corps told about the judge looking for military uniform inspection and serveing has hall moniter to tell the head judge in the press box how the corps behaved?

[scout9193]

Sorry, but making the top 6 (or five even) does not make you a top corps. You have to prove that you can "hang with the big boys" for at least two or 3 years before you can be considered an upper-tier competitor. Who do I consider the top tier right now? Cadets, Cavies, Phantom, BD, and SCV. "But SCV tanked this year!!!!" you say. Yeah, well the same thing about a single year not determining a corps reputation works the opposite way, too. If SCV doesn't break back into the top 6 in 2006, then I'll pull them off my list.

Madison's been too far back for too long (the last time they placed in the top 6 was 99) and Coats just haven't been there long enough for them to be considered an upper-tier corps. Retain membership, staff, and innovation for a couple of more years and you'll be playing with the big boys.

I'm sorry but this post just cracked me up....

Just how long have you been around this activity? In fact, just how old are you?? ***sigh*** Coats have been playing with the "big boys" for several years now. Making the top 6 in this day and age is like making the top 3 ten years ago... even 5 years ago. As for your comment about Madison being "too far back for too long" Mr. Johnny-come-lately thats just laughable! (I sometimes wish there was a way to impose an age minimum on those that post here in this "what have you done for me lately" world that has become Drumcorpsplanet ). I'm sure you'll claim the "I'm entitled to my opinion who are you to say otherwise" defense. Well, my rebuttal is the "just because it's your opinion doesn't mean it does not come off as incredibly short-sighted".

CM